Re: help2man ... (Re: man2html problem)

[Alexander Mai]

Hi,

please take the time to read fully, perhaps in the evening ... :-)

Hu, noticed after writing it's a public Cc:, ok, the rest may know that
Akim and I know each other from quite some emails we exchanged earlier
(e.g. WRT a2ps)

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 01:50:30PM +0200, Akim Demaille wrote:
> 
> [Cc to Autoconf, since it does matter.]
> 
> >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Mai <address@hidden> writes:
> 
> [Extending missing as opposed to playing with `help2man --version`.]
> 
> >>  I insist.  That's the way to go.
> 
> Alexander> That's the address@hidden attitude of all those auto* coders: they
> Alexander> believe they determine the rules of the game. 
> 
> Keep calm!
> 
> I have much more experience than you have, I look much farther than
> you do, and I know what I will accept, and what I won't.
> 
> If only you'd have paid attention to missing, you'd know I'm right.
> 
> And sorry, but if you disagree, it won't change anything.  I know I'm
> right, and I know I have other things to do than debate.
> 
> I am sympathetic to your problem although I should just not care:
> these are Autoconf maintainer tools.  Stop pushing me please.
> 
> 
> Alexander> Same with this ANSI check: while a trivial solution would
> Alexander> exist (merge const, prototype and some header checks)
> 
> Who are you to say something like `trivial' about Autoconf?
> 
> Do you only envision how primordial Autoconf is for the while free
> software/open source world?
> 
> It is _not_ trivial.
> 
> It is trivial to have wishes, not to have sound, portable and backward
> compatible solutions.
> 
> Stay with us, read the lists, and then, once you have some experience
> in the field, come and propose alternatives.
> 
> 
> Alexander> there's no reasonable one at all, and people are told "too
> Alexander> much work", in 5 years, etc. What are you doing all the
> Alexander> time???  That's the very same for all those tools. I guess
> Alexander> it's time to consider alternatives. I should have a look at
> Alexander> "imake" again ... :->
> 
> Do whatever you want, Alexander.  I'm sorry you take it like this.
> 
> The solution you propose is not good because it just does not scale to
> other projects.  That's why I'm referring to missing: that way we
> address an issue and have the other people benefit from it.
> 
> Our purpose is to factor the effort.  You are asking me to waste my
> time.

That's exactly what I did not expect to read from you.
That's the usual nonsense.

Shall I tell you how many packages I have configured, installed on
various machines? That I even spend many hours on getting things running
on a 'hostile' environment like OS/2?
In addition I lack to be official sysadmin on my systems,
unlike most people I know how many packages are broken, since 
they don't easily work out if the installer is not root.
No, I don't accept that anyone claims to have "more experience".
I accept terms like "better unix/C/shell programmer" or
"obviously deeper knowledge of auto* tools".
If you would be 30 years older than we both are, it would also
be nonsense, since the experience in the area of punch cards are
useless in this context.

How can those people claim to have more experience and
insist on their current solution which is broken and can be
proofed to be? (about every time I install anything on DU this
autoconf bug hurts)
If your existing code would work you could say "first you need 
to do better", not if it is broken. If I install any new package
from the net and it core dumps immediately I also tell the person
the code is broken (at least if I can proof that it's not a 
system bug). I don't wait two years until I feel confident enough
to tell that there's a bug. And I do feel annoyed if I get the
answer "I won't fix; it works on my system in my environment".

I wish you would think about my writings a bit in the evening.
I do have no 'bad conscience' since I'm sure to spend more free time
on 'free' projects than you do - and among those people like we are it's
IMHO OK to criticize.

-- 
Alexander Mai
address@hidden