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bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-bro
From: |
Drew Adams |
Subject: |
bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless |
Date: |
Sun, 26 Jan 2014 09:52:08 -0800 (PST) |
> > And just what problem is that? You say there is a problem to
> > fix in my code. What is the problem?
>
> The one from http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=8368#32.
That demo example was not from my code, as you know. It
demonstrates bug #8368, showing why it needs to be fixed.
And it is still pertinent, AFAIK.
> > (And what is the fix you have in mind?)
And the fix is?
> >> > If bug #8368 is now fixed, great: What code to replace
> >> > with what code, concretely?
> >>
> >> Your code that uses `with-output-to-temp-buffer'.
> >
> > Why should that be replaced? And if it should, just what
> > should it to be replaced with?
>
> With `with-temp-buffer-window'.
How so? Is it a one-one replacement? What about the hooks?
If `with-temp-buffer-window' is supposed to be the replacement for
`with-output-to-temp-buffer' then that needs to be stated clearly
in the NEWS.
Including a spec of what the replacement should be for different
`with-output-to-temp-buffer' input patterns (formal parameters).
And including hook use (correspondences). With any significant
differences and limitations pointed out.
That is how to help users transition from the old to the new.
I imagine that you are well aware of that, but it's perhaps
better not to guess.
Consider by contrast this NEWS entry, which helps users
understand how to use `cl-flet' by pointing out how it differs
from (Emacs Lisp) `flet':
*** `cl-flet' is not like `flet' (which is deprecated).
Instead it obeys the behavior of Common-Lisp's `flet'.
In particular, in cl-flet function definitions are lexically
scoped, whereas in flet the scoping is dynamic.
> > That is part of deprecating something:
> > tell users what they should change to what in existing
> > code. E.g.,
> > (old-foo this that) ==>
> > (new-bar something-else that 42 (1- this))
> > or whatever.
>
> I don't propose to deprecate something.
It seems to me that that is part of what bug #16038, and this
discussion, are about. It is also part of what bug #8368 is
about.
You ask us to reread #8368, to guess how your new macro responds
to that bug. That bug speaks specifically about deprecating
`with-output-to-temp-buffer'.
And in that context the deprecation would involve a simple
renaming (one-one).
> I offer a solution to a problem.
What is the solution, beyond chanting the mantra
`with-temp-buffer-window'? What `with-output-to-temp-buffer'
patterns map to what `with-temp-buffer-window' patterns?
What about the various hooks?
> >> Maybe Leo would have started to do that if you had not
> >> interfered. I suggest you apologize and consult with him
> >> on how to proceed on this matter.
>
> > Suggest all you want, if it makes you feel better. But I
> > do not feel that I interfered in any way. Nor do I think
> > I have anything to apologize for.
>
> Then better don't ask for suggestions.
No one asked for ad hominem, off-the-wall "suggestions".
Of course, you elided your actual suggestion (restored here),
as well as what I said about it (restored here), giving the
impression that it might have actually been a helpful, technical
suggestion that I objected to when I said, "Suggest all you want".
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, (continued)
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/24
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/25
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/26
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless,
Drew Adams <=
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, martin rudalics, 2014/01/27
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Drew Adams, 2014/01/27
- bug#16038: 24.3; latest change to with-help-window makes temp-buffer-browse useless, Glenn Morris, 2014/01/21