Re: Re: [Denemo-devel] Midi-status

[Jeremiah Benham]

On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 18:41 +0100, address@hidden wrote:

> I ask myself when will it be possible to define and implement
> Midi-signals connected to Denemo-directives, so that metronome,
> volume-changes, 

Volume Changes are implement via dynamics. I have not tested it to see
how it work and how well. Placing a dynamic on a note changes the midi
output volume.

Jeremiah


> d.c. al fine etc. are shown as Denemo/Lilypond printout
> but also have a midi effect.
> 
> Nils
> 
> Am 22.03.2009 um  Uhr haben Sie geschrieben:
> > On Fri, 2009-03-20 at 14:06 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > Addition:
> > > I just made a synchronus recording of a Denemo playback in Ardour.
> > > So I connected Denemo -> Fluidsynth and Fluidsynth(audio)->Ardour
> and
> > switched Ardour to "listen to jack-transport".
> >
> > Is the transport staying in sync for you. On my system I can hear it
> > kind of hickup and then the transport gets out of sync. It may because
> I
> > am not using a rt kernel and I am also not running jack with -R
> either.
> > I just wondered if you experienced it.
> >
> > > Armed an Ardour-track with "record", hit play in Denemo and a
> sync-recording
> > will happen.
> > >
> > > Denemos Stop-button stopped the Jacktransport as expected, but did
> not send a
> > real note-off.
> >
> > It now sends and all sound off signal when denemo stop button is
> > pressed.
> > I have also added a toggle in preferences to set the jack transport to
> > start stopped. I don't know why anyone would want that but I added it.
> >
> > Jeremiah
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Could the stop-button get some "Midi-Panic" functions?
> > >
> > > Nils
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:51:56 +0100
> > > Nils Gey <address@hidden> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just tested the new JACK-midi preferences. I started without
> JACK running
> > and Denemo showed up, which is an improvement.
> > > >
> > > > The button to start/restart Denemo Jack client then worked fine.
> > > > I loaded a Denemo file with 4 voices and connected them to
> Fluidsynth and
> > it was all fine.
> > > >
> > > > Great work, Jeremiah.
> > > >
> > > > Nils
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:31:03 +0300
> > > > alex stone <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Even better.
> > > > >
> > > > > And my apologies. I tend to think only linux these days, and
> rarely
> > notice
> > > > > if apps are intended for multi architecture.
> > > > > Fluidsynth sounds good too, and it stills achieves the same
> thing in the
> > > > > end.
> > > > >
> > > > > One internal sampler to rule them all, and a single defined midi
> out
> > > > > framework, for external devices.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alex.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Nils Gey <address@hidden>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I find it comfortable to give away a complete package for
> simple
> > tasks.
> > > > > > Complete means monolithic in this case.
> > > > > > And Denemo is aimed for Windows and MacOS (and others), too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But this is not a contra-"only JACK". It is quite possible to
> > integrate
> > > > > > libfluidsynth and a free, light .sf2 GM-Bank into Denemo so it
> ships
> > with
> > > > > > its own internal, always-on, sampler.
> > > > > > And because its fluidsynth (or whatever is chosen) its already
> a
> > > > > > JACK-Audio-lib, that means no work for Denemos own audio-out.
> Just
> > internal
> > > > > > connected midi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This sampler can be used easily to give out audio-feedback for
> midi-in
> > and
> > > > > > other tasks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nils
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:41:06 +0300
> > > > > > alex stone <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seconded.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack's designed to do all the hard work, and having a
> single,
> > simple,
> > > > > > > reliable framework, using jack's powerful capabilities,
> seems like
> > common
> > > > > > > sense to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A suggestion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Define the default midi out as jack multiple ports, (user
> defined in
> > a
> > > > > > staff
> > > > > > > properties menu)
> > > > > > > Remove any audio playback code, and use the multiport midi
> out to
> > allow
> > > > > > > other apps, like LS, Qsynth, etc, all plugged into Jack, as
> the
> > audio
> > > > > > heavy
> > > > > > > lifters, to take the strain, so to speak.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have all these terrific apps now, working really well,
> and
> > designed to
> > > > > > > perform specific tasks. Seems like re-inventing the wheel,
> to try and
> > do
> > > > > > > their jobs too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just my view, and importantly, from the perspective of
> continued
> > > > > > enthusiasm
> > > > > > > for the Denemo project,
> > > > > > > a desire to see it really fly......
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alex.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Nils Gey <address@hidden>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yesterday I solved the complete Issue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My system had a fallback-chain (by ALSA):
> > > > > > > > Jack->alsa->PC-speaker(!!)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So when JACK blocks my ALSA /dev/dsp or /dev/audio it
> begins to
> > look
> > > > > > whats
> > > > > > > > possible, and the only free thing was the pcspeaker. So it
> was not
> > my
> > > > > > > > harddrive at all, but this was so close to each other and
> the
> > > > > > audio-noise
> > > > > > > > really sounded like a dying harddrive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the end its still the topic of having (too) many
> audio-backends
> > in
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > application while JACK could cover them all alone.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nils
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:08:54 -0500
> > > > > > > > Jeremiah Benham <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 22:11 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I think I've got it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The audio-feedback is connected to it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Denemo now requires JACK. If jackd is not present
> Denemo starts
> > it
> > > > > > > > itself (I recommend to deactivate this and instead give a
> warning
> > and
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > leave non-audio/midi features avaible).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The nature of JACK is that it does not allow any use
> of the
> > > > > > > > audio-driver while its running.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But Denemo tries to use /dev/dsp /dev/sequencer which
> is
> > blocked by
> > > > > > > > JACK. If that happens my system goes crazy (instead of a
> crash).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I assume regular denemo does not cause this noise? And
> if you
> > deleted
> > > > > > > > > the /dev/dsp and /dev/sequencer and turned off immediate
> > playback
> > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > the noise stop?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jeremiah
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And now I remember: In Debian it crashed at this
> moment. Now
> > here
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > Arch it does not crash but produce these weird sounds.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know how to deactiate this crash. Unchecking
> the Audio
> > > > > > feedback
> > > > > > > > and deleting the two values /dev/midi and /dev/sequencer
> is not
> > the
> > > > > > > > solution.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I reommend to get rid of support for people without
> jack. Not
> > for
> > > > > > > > complete Denemo, but for the audio-part. Then
> --enable-jack can be
> > the
> > > > > > > > standard.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It will mean greater compability and better
> > cross-platform-support,
> > > > > > > > too. And Denemo will loose dependencies like portaudio and
> can
> > > > > > completly
> > > > > > > > rely on JACK.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nils
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:32:42 -0500
> > > > > > > > > > Jeremiah Benham <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 17:28 +0100, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I totally forgot:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Midi-In *is* working, but the strange
> hardware-noises are
> > still
> > > > > > > > there. So I can put notes in via midi!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know if I should get an audio-response and
> what is
> > > > > > needed
> > > > > > > > for that. Maybe thats the reason.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can I deactivate the audio-response somehow?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Try turning off plyaback entered notes immediately
> in
> > > > > > preferences.
> > > > > > > > See
> > > > > > > > > > > if that fixes it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And why are there still the two fields in Denemo
> options
> > with
> > > > > > > > /dev/sequencer and /dev/midi. Isn't this legacy now?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thats for people who don't compile with
> --enable-jack
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jeremiah
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nils
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:10:24 +0100
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nils Gey <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > First report on midi. I just write what I
> noticed. I am
> > sure
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > probably know most of these already.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I compiled Denemo with --enable-jack. Latest
> git.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I start my jackd, after that Denemo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Denemo shows up as input and output client. The
> output
> > has
> > > > > > voice
> > > > > > > > 1, which is the first staff.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating new staffs, with a custom name "test",
> shows a
> > new
> > > > > > port
> > > > > > > > in QJackCtls
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [+]Denemo
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Renaming of the staff has no effect. It stays
> the the old
> > one
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > jack.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > With these two staffs, "voice1" and "test",
> deleting the
> > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > one results in the deletion of the qjackctl port and
> leaves only
> > > > > > "test",
> > > > > > > > which is fine. Creating a new staff (create new staff
> above) does
> > not
> > > > > > create
> > > > > > > > a new jack-port.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating a new staff with an existing name
> ("voice1")
> > does
> > > > > > create
> > > > > > > > the staff but not a new jack-port.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I loaded an existing .denemo file with four
> voices and
> > they
> > > > > > show
> > > > > > > > up correctly as four ports.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quitting Denemo leaves no traces. Everything is
> fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now to midi-in:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > For the midi-in testing I used the software
> jack-keyboard
> > to
> > > > > > > > avoid any hardware and/or alsa-bridge related errors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember I got it working once, a few weeks
> ago, but
> > today
> > > > > > > > there was no success at all:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said Denemo creates an in-port "denemo"
> on
> > startup. If
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > connect jack-keyboard to it and send notes nothing happens
> in
> > Denemo. I
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > this is an expected behaviour, but in fact this is not the
> right
> > > > > > behaviour
> > > > > > > > and confusing. If there is already a midi-in port I (as an
> > uninformed
> > > > > > user)
> > > > > > > > don't see why its not possible. See the suggestions below
> for
> > that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So I choose Input->midi input from the menu. The
> dialog
> > pops
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > (which is sooo ugly with my WMII window manager because
> its
> > stretched
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > the whole screen).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In QJackCtl I now see a second in-port named
> denemo-01. I
> > am
> > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > this is a known bug.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If I connect to the new "denemo-01" it
> automatically
> > switches
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the first "denemo" port. So connecting to denemo-01 is not
> possible
> > at
> > > > > > all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now comes the freaking part. To avoid confusion:
> I am
> > some
> > > > > > 80%
> > > > > > > > sure this is related to my system and not to Denemo. I
> encountered
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > like this already with the Video-Lan-Player but I don't
> know what
> > it is
> > > > > > > > right now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Status: Midi-in is now activated, I see two
> denemo-in
> > ports
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > jack and have connected the jack-keyboard to the "denemo"
> in-port
> > (btw.
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > results with my hardware-keyboard via alsa-bridge).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If I send a note now my systems totally freaks
> out and
> > my
> > > > > > > > hardware(!) makes constant freaking noises which changes
> if I send
> > > > > > another
> > > > > > > > midi-note. It sounds a bit like a dial-up modem and it
> sounds very
> > very
> > > > > > > > unhealthy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To be clear: I don't mean my audio-hardware! And
> its not
> > the
> > > > > > > > pc-speaker. It sounds like scratching or somethings going
> wild.
> > Maybe
> > > > > > > > harddrive, maybe some fan... I don't know.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The source of this is Denemo. The sounds are
> going on
> > until I
> > > > > > > > close Denemo. Cutting jack-connections, stopping jack or
> other
> > software
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > now effect.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said I believe this is only my system,
> but there
> > is
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > error nontheless. Other software works fine with
> midi-in/out and
> > > > > > routing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Suggestions:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Make --enable-jack default on. Give a warning
> to the
> > > > > > console
> > > > > > > > if jackd is not started, but let Denemo run. Its a common
> thing to
> > > > > > restart
> > > > > > > > the client(Denemo) if you want to have jack in the end. I
> never saw
> > a
> > > > > > > > "reconnect on the fly" function in any Jack-app that works
> > flawless
> > > > > > (like
> > > > > > > > starting the software anew)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Prevent staffs with the same name at all.
> Every
> > staff,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > means "jack-port" here, should have a unique name. This
> should
> > have
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > > todo with lilypond staff names. The printout-names should
> be
> > allowed to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > different from the internal/jack-name and should be
> allowed to be
> > > > > > > > non-unique.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) The midi-in behaviour is not optimal. I
> expect
> > sending
> > > > > > > > midi-notes to Denemo as a standard task. So I suggest to
> get rid of
> > the
> > > > > > > > midi-in dialog (enharmonic range etc.) as a popup and
> leave it as
> > a
> > > > > > > > preferences tab.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In case of enharmonic and key-related behaviour
> it would
> > be
> > > > > > > > better to look at the actuall staff-keysigns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Also I suggest to open the Midi-in port right
> from
> > the
> > > > > > start.
> > > > > > > > Maybe use lash indepently from a lash-project (don't know
> if thats
> > > > > > possible)
> > > > > > > > to remember the last midi-in connection and try to
> recreate it. Of
> > it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > the midi-keyboard its likely that its still there. Then
> you can do
> > an
> > > > > > > > autoconnect, instructed by Denemo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) This creates a situation where Denemo
> constantly
> > listens
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > midi-in, which is a good solution in my eyes. To prevent
> accidental
> > use
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the midi-in feature (like putting a dish or some heavy
> notation on
> > the
> > > > > > > > keyboard, which is a real live situation) I suggest a
> switch in
> > Denemo
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > reroutes all midi-in signals to /dev/null, but which does
> not cut
> > any
> > > > > > > > connections. Its just a bypass.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So far...
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nils
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Nils Gey <address@hidden>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Nils Gey <address@hidden>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nils Gey <address@hidden>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > address@hidden
> > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>