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Re: [Denemo-devel] Re: denemo and GPLv3
From: |
Pietro Battiston |
Subject: |
Re: [Denemo-devel] Re: denemo and GPLv3 |
Date: |
Thu, 06 May 2010 09:06:33 +0200 |
I'm in a hurry, but two comments:
Il giorno gio, 06/05/2010 alle 00.21 +0200, Nils Gey ha scritto:
> I'm doing investigations again.
> This is still not about the content or meaning of the gpl3 but about the
> procedure itself:
>
> -Very important is the string in GPL2 "any later version".
>
> -GPL3 and GPL2 are incompatible. If there is a gpl2-lib Denemo uses which
> does NOT use the "any later version" clause then we can't use it if we are
> going to use GPL3. This is the technically most critical point and needs to
> be cleared first. I am _not_ fully against a GPL3 switch but I find it very
> important to check if GPL3 is still compatible with our current dependencies.
>
> -If it turns out that Denemo was indeed historically released as "GPLv2 or
> any later version" then we don't need to ask anybody because its only a name
> change. If "later versions" is not the case all copyright holders need to be
> asked for permission because its a switch to an incompatible(!) license.
>
> -A quick crawl through all Denemo files did reveal that the "COPYING" file
> seems to be the template version. This is a bad thing because it is not clear
> if we use "any later version" or not, because its still there in its
> suggestion/template form:
> "[...] (at your option) any later version.[...]"
As far as I know (only from my debian packaging habits), this is totally
normal, since that is not a "template version", it's just the license
text. I guess nobody would have or want to modify it, ever. That's why,
for instance, in Debian we don't install your "COPYING" file, but refer
to a single copy of the GPL 2 always present in the system.
And, you're right, that single file doesn't specify if denemo chose GPL
2 or 2+.
That's why, when I packaged Denemo, I "presented" it as GPL 2: simply
because I didn't have the right to interpret your "silence" as GPL 2+
(thought it was what I expected from a GNU project, this observation is
legally null).
>
> There seem to be only four source files directly created by denemo which have
> a license header at all, but all these four use the unaltered template
> version, that means no one ever has made the decision to use "any later
> version" or not.
> ./include/denemo/denemo_api.h
> ./include/denemo/denemo_types.h
> ./src/pitchrecog.c
> ./src/lyparser.h
On this point... are you sure? Still as far as I know, the unalterated
is not just a "template", it tells the recipient of the software "hey,
I'm GPL2+" (in the end, that's what GNU license experts suggest people
to adopt). For the sake of completeness, still the Debian copyright file
says:
The files
[...]
* include/denemo/denemo_types.h - general Copyright for Denemo applies
* src/pitchrecog.c - Copyright © 2003 Paul Brossier
are covered by the GPL 2 or later.
(seems like I forgot denemo_api, while lyparser is treated apart)
So from my point of view (which as far as I know is the established
interpretation) the problem is not "are those files GPL 2+?", but "does
the fact that those files are GPL 2+ allow us to infer that implicitly
the others are too?". And if the answer is "no", permission of each
copyright holder will be indeed required.
Now, what is the answer? I don't know. It is almost sure that all
contributors just didn't put a header because they implicitly accepted
Denemo license choice. On the other hand, (very) strict interpretations
of law even suggest that a file with no license header is simply "All
rights reserved" (unless a unique file for the project - in _addition_
to the bare license text - says "all the project, where not otherwise
stated, is released under license xyz"). So, on this point you may want
a really expert advice.
bye
Pietro
>
> -If "any later version" is applied to Denemos license it means the license
> automatically upgrades to the next available GPL once its released (at least
> that is what the folks in #gnu said). I am very alerted by this, it means we
> are at the mercy of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). This is not the
> badest thing to happen, but we don't have control over our own license in
> this case. There is no meta-license that defines what the core GPL is, so its
> unlikely but technically possible that a gpl4 or gpl5 will be of dislike to
> the Denemo developers but the software/license automatically upgrades.
>
> Next steps:
> -Check if the GPL3 is worth it and rely on our own adjudgement
> -Make clear if Denemo uses the "or any later version" clause and change the
> files according to this
>
>
> I'm not trying to get in the way of something but licenses are a core
> component of free software and should no be taken lightly
>
> Nils
>
>
>
> On Wed, 05 May 2010 22:50:50 +0100
> Richard Shann <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2010-05-05 at 23:19 +0200, Nils Gey wrote:
> > > I am still unsure about it.
> > > It is not clear
> > I think that must be so, othewise no significant projects could switch.
> > > if we are allowed to change it without getting permission from the
> > > original authors and contributers.
> > >
> > > But more important: GPL2 still works for us.
> > It does nothing for us until someone tries to abuse Denemo in some way,
> > then we find out if it was carefully written or there were loopholes.
> > > Why should we change a running system?
> > Because others take more interest and know more about it?
> > Richard
> >
> > >
> > > Nils
> > >
> > > On Wed, 05 May 2010 14:49:36 +0100
> > > Richard Shann <address@hidden> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 23:30 +0000, Karl Berry wrote:
> > > > > Hi everyone -- did we discuss upgrading denemo to GPLv3-or-later? I
> > > > > belatedly noticed the new release was still GPLv2, it seemed. Any
> > > > > problems with switching next time?
> > > > I posted this email on to denemo-devel, but apart from some emails about
> > > > whether GPLv3 is a good thing nothing has happened. Looking around the
> > > > denemo code, it looks like what you would do is replace the file COPYING
> > > > with a new one (I expect there is a correct place to get it from...).
> > > > If that is right and no-one objects I will do that.
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > > address@hidden
> > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> > > >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Denemo-devel] Re: denemo and GPLv3, Nils Gey, 2010/05/08