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Re: [Denemo-devel] Indentation (was Re: Command generation mechanism)


From: Richard Shann
Subject: Re: [Denemo-devel] Indentation (was Re: Command generation mechanism)
Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 14:13:07 +0100

I have built your isolate_generated and refactor branches and they are
both working fine - I do make clean, distclean autogen.sh configure for
local build make and make install as a test all with a clean user. I
have played around with the parts of the program that could be affected
by the re-factoring as well. So that all seems fine.

On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 14:44 +0200, Éloi Rivard wrote:
> I pushed the 'denemoui_local' branch. Denemo searches denemoui.xml
> locally, and systemwild if it does find it. This way I can test denemo
> without installing it, and without compiling with USE_LOCAL_DENEMOUI.
> Let me know if I can merge.

Well, it was many years ago that I did that "USE_LOCAL_DENEMOUI thing"
rather than "search in the current (src) directory thing" - at the time
I thought we would invite trouble with people running Denemo and it
mysteriously crashing because of some old denemoui.xml debris lying
around.
More recently I have gotten a fast machine and I now do make and make
install every time (installing locally to avoid requiring root
permission). I suspect I could even delete the old installation without
it causing a delay in development. (When I had a slow machine I modified
the Makefile by hand after the configure step, taking out the -02 and
putting -O0 -DUSE_LOCAL_DENEMOUI instead, that way gdb worked
intelligibly).

However, if you feel allowing a local version of the menu system to be
invoked (perhaps a warning message on stdout could be good) will make
your life easier I'm ok with that - it was a fine judgement call anyway.

Richard


> 
> 
> 
> 2013/5/7 Éloi Rivard <address@hidden>
>         Ok. This is done on the 'isolate_generated' branch. Let me
>         know when this one is mergeable too.
>         
>         
>         
>         2013/5/7 Richard Shann <address@hidden>
>                 On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 11:46 +0200, Éloi Rivard wrote:
>                 > I made some refactoring on keyboard.c and splited
>                 it. XML parts are
>                 > now in keymapio.c. Let me know if it is mergeable.
>                 
>                 I can try later.
>                 >
>                 > Must all sources be direct children of src or
>                 subdirectories are ok to
>                 > you ? I think about isolating generated c files.
>                 
>                 yes, for the generated c files it would be good. I am
>                 not keen on it for
>                 the regular code that goes into the binary that I edit
>                 (you need an IDE
>                 to cope with the sources being spread around easily I
>                 think).
>                 
>                 Richard
>                 
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 > 2013/5/6 Richard Shann <address@hidden>
>                 >         On Mon, 2013-05-06 at 17:54 +0200, Éloi
>                 Rivard wrote:
>                 >         > I idented src and utils directories with
>                 indent -nut -l500,
>                 >         to use
>                 >         > tabs instead of spaces so the code
>                 displays the same on
>                 >         every editors,
>                 >         > and to not break lines after 80 columns.
>                 >         >
>                 >         > This is on the 'indent' branch. Let me
>                 know if it is ok to
>                 >         you
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >         I have built this version and it seems to be
>                 running just fine
>                 >         - of
>                 >         course we have no regression tests, but I
>                 trust GNU indent.
>                 >         One thing that surprised me is the coding
>                 style is not what I
>                 >         remembered
>                 >         (about 15 years ago I worked in a company
>                 that specified GNU
>                 >         coding
>                 >         style for newly-written code) and my memory
>                 was that it
>                 >         involved opening
>                 >         braces on the same line as the function
>                 name, ie
>                 >
>                 >         void myfun (void) {
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >         }
>                 >
>                 >         whereas what you have looks more like the
>                 K&R that I first got
>                 >         to know,
>                 >         ie
>                 >         int myfun ()
>                 >         {
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >         }
>                 >
>                 >         but so long as this is current GNU coding
>                 standards I am happy
>                 >         to go
>                 >         with it.
>                 >
>                 >         Richard
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         > 2013/5/6 Éloi Rivard <address@hidden>
>                 >         >         That's what I mean :)
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >         2013/5/6 Richard Shann
>                 <address@hidden>
>                 >         >                 On Mon, 2013-05-06 at
>                 11:27 +0200, Éloi
>                 >         Rivard wrote:
>                 >         >                 > Indent is a GNU program
>                 that let you
>                 >         indent your
>                 >         >                 code the way you
>                 >         >                 > want:
>                 http://www.gnu.org/software/indent/
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > I think most of linux
>                 distributions have a
>                 >         package
>                 >         >                 for this.
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 Ah, yes, I have it now, a
>                 separate package
>                 >         called
>                 >         >                 indent ( :) ) on
>                 >         >                 Debian.
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > This let you chose the
>                 indentation policy
>                 >         you want
>                 >         >                 (number of spaces,
>                 >         >                 > use of tabulations or
>                 not, braces at end
>                 >         of lines or
>                 >         >                 at beginning
>                 >         >                 > etc.)
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > The default style of
>                 indent is "GNU" that
>                 >         is
>                 >         >                 recommended for GNU
>                 >         >                 > projects, what do you
>                 think of this one ?
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 Yes, it was never my
>                 favorite, but I value
>                 >         >                 standardization above
>                 >         >                 personal preference.
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > Maybe automatic
>                 indentation can not be a
>                 >         good idea
>                 >         >                 in some case
>                 >         >                 > indeed, though indent is
>                 pretty safe,
>                 >         because
>                 >         >                 sometimes you just want
>                 >         >                 > a particular alignment,
>                 for instance with
>                 >         arrays.
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > Perhaps a code indent
>                 commit would be a
>                 >         good idea ?
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 Do you mean a separate
>                 commit that does
>                 >         nothing but
>                 >         >                 correct indentation.
>                 >         >                 That would be very good
>                 indeed, it is really
>                 >         bad to
>                 >         >                 mix code changes
>                 >         >                 with indentation changes
>                 as I have been
>                 >         doing (but
>                 >         >                 then, no-one else has
>                 >         >                 been caring much ...).
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 Richard
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > 2013/5/6 Richard Shann
>                 >         <address@hidden>
>                 >         >                 >         Indentation is
>                 often terrible in
>                 >         Denemo - I
>                 >         >                 don't seem to have
>                 >         >                 >         any
>                 >         >                 >         indent command -
>                 this hook seems
>                 >         to refer to
>                 >         >                 one, what would
>                 >         >                 >         that be?
>                 >         >                 >         I am not sure
>                 that automatic
>                 >         re-indenting on
>                 >         >                 commit will be
>                 >         >                 >         good -
>                 >         >                 >         anything
>                 altering the programmer's
>                 >         text is
>                 >         >                 controversial, but
>                 >         >                 >         I would be
>                 >         >                 >         very happy to
>                 adopt a convention
>                 >         given a
>                 >         >                 tool to enable it. I
>                 >         >                 >         have been
>                 >         >                 >         fixing
>                 indentation myself by hand
>                 >         during the
>                 >         >                 past year as I
>                 >         >                 >         have edited
>                 >         >                 >         code, despite
>                 the annoyance that
>                 >         doing it
>                 >         >                 while making code
>                 >         >                 >         changes
>                 >         >                 >         makes the commit
>                 much harder to
>                 >         read. So a
>                 >         >                 global tidy up
>                 >         >                 >         followed by
>                 >         >                 >         testing (it
>                 should be a *very*
>                 >         trusted
>                 >         >                 indent tool!) would be
>                 >         >                 >         good I
>                 >         >                 >         think.
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >         Richard
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >         On Sun,
>                 2013-05-05 at 20:50 +0200,
>                 >         Éloi
>                 >         >                 Rivard wrote:
>                 >         >                 >         > Here is an
>                 interesting indent
>                 >         pre-commit
>                 >         >                 hook
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         https://gist.github.com/eroullit/1250603
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         > 2013/5/5 Éloi
>                 Rivard
>                 >         <address@hidden>
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 2013/5/5 Richard Shann
>                 >         >                 <address@hidden>
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 On Sun,
>                 >         2013-05-05 at
>                 >         >                 17:09 +0200, Éloi
>                 >         >                 >         Rivard wrote:
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > 2013/5/5
>                 >         Richard Shann
>                 >         >                 >
>                 <address@hidden>
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         On
>                 >         Sun,
>                 >         >                 2013-05-05 at 13:41 +0200,
>                 >         >                 >         Éloi
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 Rivard wrote:
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         Let's imagine
>                 >         >                 a user wants to
>                 >         >                 >         create a
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 scheme command
>                 >         and
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         add it
>                 >         as a
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         denemo default
>                 >         >                 command. What
>                 >         >                 >         process
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 should be
>                 >         followed ?
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         1)Use
>                 >         >                 View->Scheme to get an
>                 >         >                 >         editor. Type in
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 the scheme for
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         new
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         command.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         2)Decide on a
>                 >         >                 position in the menu
>                 >         >                 >         system
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 for the new
>                 >         command.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         Right
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         Click
>                 >         on the
>                 >         >                 item above the
>                 >         >                 >         desired
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 position, and
>                 >         choose Save
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         As New
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         Menu
>                 >         Item.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         3)Give
>                 >         a name
>                 >         >                 for the command
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         4)Give
>                 >         a Label
>                 >         >                 for the menu item
>                 >         >                 >         that will
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 activate it
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         5)(optionally)
>                 >         >                 give a submenu name
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         6)Save
>                 >         with
>                 >         >                 default commands.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         > I am
>                 >         not sure
>                 >         >                 I understand roles
>                 >         >                 >         of
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 tools :
>                 >         extract_all.sh,
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         this
>                 >         creates
>                 >         >                 files that the
>                 >         >                 >         translation tool
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 xgettext can use
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                  generate_sources
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 generate_sources.c
>                 generates
>                 >         >                 >         (ancient)
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 built-in
>                 >         commands
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >  and
>                 >         the
>                 >         >                 sources it generates,
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         commands.c,
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         this
>                 >         exists for
>                 >         >                 translatability,
>                 >         >                 >         but is is
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 executed at
>                 >         startup
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         making
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         original
>                 >         >                 mechanism of reading
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 Default.commands
>                 >         generally
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         redundant
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         (except where
>                 >         >                 new commands have
>                 >         >                 >         been created
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 since the binary
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         was
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         generated)
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > Why is it
>                 >          needed to
>                 >         >                 generate some c dummy
>                 >         >                 >         files for
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 translation
>                 >         since
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > scheme is
>                 >         supported by
>                 >         >                 xgettext ?
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 there are no c
>                 >         dummy
>                 >         >                 files, commands.c is
>                 >         >                 >         executed, it
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 is not scheme
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 that is getting
>                 >         >                 translatable it is menu
>                 >         >                 >         labels and
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 tooltips.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >          denemoui.xml,
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         this
>                 >         is
>                 >         >                 hand-written, it defines
>                 >         >                 >         where the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 built-in
>                 >         commands
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         appear
>                 >         in
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         menu system
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                  GENERATE_SOURCE_CODE
>                 define
>                 >         >                 >         etc.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         This
>                 >         is used to
>                 >         >                 create a version
>                 >         >                 >         of Denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 which generates
>                 >         the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         source
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         code
>                 >         commands.c,
>                 >         >                 that is you make
>                 >         >                 >         Denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 with that
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         preprocessor
>                 >         >                 flag
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         defined, run it
>                 >         >                 and it loads all
>                 >         >                 >         the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 commands (from
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 Default.commands)
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         and
>                 >         generates
>                 >         >                 new source code for
>                 >         >                 >         Denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 that contains
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         translatable
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         strings for all
>                 >         >                 the commands. You
>                 >         >                 >         then
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 re-compile
>                 >         Denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         without that
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         flag
>                 >         and it uses
>                 >         >                 the new source
>                 >         >                 >         code; the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 program's
>                 >         behavior
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         has
>                 >         not in
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         fact
>                 >         been
>                 >         >                 altered, but it has
>                 >         >                 >         labels and
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 tooltips for all
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         commands
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         translatable.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > Why not create
>                 >         another
>                 >         >                 program dedicated
>                 >         >                 >         to this
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 task and let
>                 >         denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > behavior more
>                 >         regular ?
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 yes, please
>                 >         do :) You just
>                 >         >                 have to parse
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 Default.commands
>                 >         and
>                 >         >                 generate
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 C-code from it.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >         See
>                 attached patch.
>                 >         >                 utils/generate_commands
>                 creates
>                 >         >                 >         the very
>                 >         >                 >         >         same
>                 code than launching
>                 >         denemo
>                 >         >                 with
>                 >         >                 >
>                 -DGENERATE_SOURCE_CODE
>                 >         >                 >         >         I
>                 indented some code in
>                 >         keyboard.c
>                 >         >                 so some line have
>                 >         >                 >         been
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 changed but the behavior
>                 >         is the
>                 >         >                 same. I also fixed
>                 >         >                 >         some unused
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 variable warnings.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >         What
>                 about some indent
>                 >         commit
>                 >         >                 hook ?
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >  and
>                 >         some
>                 >         >                 other I probably miss.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         It
>                 >         could be. I
>                 >         >                 seem to remember
>                 >         >                 >         you
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 suggested the
>                 >         word
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         Pharaonic to
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         describe what
>                 >         >                 was needed to make
>                 >         >                 >         Denemo
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 translatable :)
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         > It
>                 >         should be
>                 >         >                 understandable by
>                 >         >                 >         reading and
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 hacking, but as
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         process
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         seems quite
>                 >         >                 complicated, I think
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 developers
>                 >         comments would
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         be
>                 >         helpful.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         It is
>                 >         very
>                 >         >                 complicated - In the
>                 >         >                 >         latest
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 release I missed
>                 >         the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         fact
>                 >         that
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         after
>                 >         running
>                 >         >                 extract_all.sh there
>                 >         >                 >         are
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 generally
>                 >         further text
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         files
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         generated that
>                 >         >                 need a git commit
>                 >         >                 >         otherwise
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 the make dist
>                 >         step
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         fails
>                 >         to
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         create
>                 >         the po
>                 >         >                 stuff. Those text
>                 >         >                 >         files are in
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 actions/commandscripts and
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         exist
>                 >         purely to
>                 >         >                 allow xgettext to
>                 >         >                 >         see the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 (_ ) procedures
>                 >         -
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         translatable
>                 >         >                 strings - in the
>                 >         >                 >         scheme of the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 scripted
>                 >         commands.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         (By
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         contrast, the
>                 >         >                 commands.c is
>                 >         >                 >         generated to
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 allow xgettext
>                 >         to see
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         labels
>                 >         of the
>                 >         >                 commands and their
>                 >         >                 >         tooltips).
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         There
>                 >         are a lot
>                 >         >                 of steps needed to
>                 >         >                 >         create a
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 release and I am
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         very
>                 >         happy
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         to
>                 >         rehearse them
>                 >         >                 here - it
>                 >         >                 >         improves the
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 chance of me
>                 >         getting
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         it
>                 >         right
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         next
>                 >         time first
>                 >         >                 time.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > Something that
>                 >         may be
>                 >         >                 discouraging for a
>                 >         >                 >         beginner at
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 the current
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > state, is that
>                 >         when you
>                 >         >                 edit some code,
>                 >         >                 >         you can't
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 just compile &
>                 >         see
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > since there
>                 >         seem to be
>                 >         >                 some intermediate
>                 >         >                 >         generation
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 steps. Maybe
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 > including
>                 >         those in the
>                 >         >                 build system would
>                 >         >                 >         make
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 things easier.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 which code? The
>                 >         >                 intermediate steps are
>                 just
>                 >         >                 >         for
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 translation.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >         If you
>                 want for instance
>                 >         add some
>                 >         >                 metadata to
>                 >         >                 >         actions/menu xml
>                 >         >                 >         >         files,
>                 you may have to
>                 >         update
>                 >         >                 translation steps too.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 (Well, there is
>                 >         that
>                 >         >                 ancient built in stuff,
>                 >         >                 >         which we
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 really don't
>                 >         want
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 people expanding
>                 >         - new
>                 >         >                 stuff should be
>                 >         >                 >         scheme
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 generally.
>                 >         However, as it
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 is, it has
>                 >         advantages for
>                 >         >                 re-engineering the
>                 >         >                 >         built-in
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 stuff. There is
>                 >         an
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 ancient
>                 >         classification of
>                 >         >                 commands in there
>                 >         >                 >         which may
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 come in useful
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 some day, and it
>                 >         does
>                 >         >                 generate the commands
>                 >         >                 >         for notes
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 A-G and
>                 >         durations
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 0-7
>                 >         programatically, which
>                 >         >                 saves having to
>                 >         >                 >         edit
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 multiple times
>                 >         if we
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 alter something
>                 >         about how
>                 >         >                 they appear in the
>                 >         >                 >         program.
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 But I wouldn't
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 seriously defend
>                 >         that
>                 >         >                 stuff, if someone were
>                 >         >                 >         to write
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 it cleanly from
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 scratch).
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 Richard
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >         --
>                 >         >                 >         >         Éloi
>                 Rivard -
>                 >         address@hidden
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >         « On
>                 perd plus à être
>                 >         indécis qu'à
>                 >         >                 se tromper. »
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         > --
>                 >         >                 >         > Éloi Rivard -
>                 address@hidden
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >         > « On perd plus
>                 à être indécis
>                 >         qu'à se
>                 >         >                 tromper. »
>                 >         >                 >         >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > --
>                 >         >                 > Éloi Rivard -
>                 address@hidden
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >                 > « On perd plus à être
>                 indécis qu'à se
>                 >         tromper. »
>                 >         >                 >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >         --
>                 >         >         Éloi Rivard - address@hidden
>                 >         >
>                 >         >         « On perd plus à être indécis qu'à
>                 se tromper. »
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 >         >         Denemo-devel mailing list
>                 >         >         address@hidden
>                 >         >
>                 https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         >
>                 >         > --
>                 >         > Éloi Rivard - address@hidden
>                 >         >
>                 >         > « On perd plus à être indécis qu'à se
>                 tromper. »
>                 >         >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 > --
>                 > Éloi Rivard - address@hidden
>                 >
>                 > « On perd plus à être indécis qu'à se tromper. »
>                 >
>                 
>                 
>                 
>         
>         
>         
>         -- 
>         Éloi Rivard - address@hidden
>                 
>         « On perd plus à être indécis qu'à se tromper. »
>         
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Éloi Rivard - address@hidden
>         
> « On perd plus à être indécis qu'à se tromper. »
> 





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