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Re: [Denemo-devel] music with 2 different time signatures


From: Richard Shann
Subject: Re: [Denemo-devel] music with 2 different time signatures
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:07:22 +0100

On Wed, 2016-10-19 at 14:06 -0700, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> thanks Richard (et all), I have read the lilypond documentation, but 
> unfortunately doesn't explain this score's problem...

Having read the documentation you are excellently placed to ask on
address@hidden, there are half-a-dozen people there who will
relish pointing you to the syntax you need.

> 
> ...the original score was (most likely) created in Finale...

that's a drawing-based program. It is easy to create new forms of music
notation drawing by hand or with drawing programs. Much more challenging
to persuade LilyPond to create any particular such new form.

> I don't have the 
> files, and there are a couple of different issues regarding different time 
> signatures...I think I'll ask them one at a time...
> 
> I've attached a pdf file and a screenshot of the 1st 'problem'.

This looks relatively straight forward - the upper part and lower parts
start notating in a 2:1 ratio. You can just use the tuplet commands to
do that (The Denemo Display does not like it if you don't stop and
restart the tuplet at each of its "barline"s but the typesetting is ok).
Attached is an example. The only thing not done in that example is the
barline treatment: barlines in LilyPond are not just drawings of lines,
they are "intelligent" - they know the conventions for barlines in music
(e.g. they don't print at the start of a system and either do or don't
extend between systems depending on typesetting conventions). In your
example there are barlines in some parts that don't have matching
barlines in others. That would require additional LilyPond syntax,
either to specify such a barline type (you can specify barline types
with Denemo commands) or it would require using LilyPond markup to draw
lines as markup on the score. I'm not sure which you would need to do
(that is, I'm not sure if you could specify a barline type that would
only print in one part, I think you may have to draw a line and provide
space around it).

> 
> I'd like to best reproduce the 'proportional' tempo change between the 
> instrumental group and the choir, where the 4/4 time in instruments 
> 'moves' faster than the 4/4 time in the choir. Because this is not 
> necessarily a 'change in meter', I'd like to find an elegant way of solving 
> this in Denemo

so, the bottom line is: first find the LilyPond syntax you want to
generate. Denemo can only create scores by emitting LilyPond syntax.
And the lilypond user list is the best source of advice on LilyPond
syntax ...

HTH

Richard



> 
> thanks!
> 
>  > On Thu, 2016-10-13 at 22:52 -0700, Donald J. Stewart wrote:
> > > Is it possible to create 2 different time signatures on the same piece 
> of
> > > music?
> > > 
> > > I'm engraving a piece for 3 instruments and SATB choir where the
> > > instruments and choir 'overlap' but don't necessarily stay 'in phase' 
> with
> > > one another.
> > > 
> > > I tried to start cadenza time in the instruments, while keeping the 
> choir
> > > in time (by deleting the cadenza time, then trying to restore a time
> > > signature in each line), but that didn't work...
> > > 
> > > Is this possible?
> > 
> > The documentation for this is at
> > 
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#poly
> > metric-notation
> > 
> > Denemo has some commands already for generating some of the 
> LilyPond
> > syntax needed for this sort of thing. The command "Apparent Time
> > Signature" for example generates the syntax
> > 
> > \set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = 3/4
> > 
> > which you will find documented above. This, together with the \times x/
> y
> > syntax that the Arbitrary Tuplet command generates is enough for 
> baroque
> > scores where the bass has a different time signature to the solo part.
> > For your purposes you will probably need quite a bit more of the syntax
> > from that reference. Once you know what the LilyPond is that you want 
> to
> > generate then Denemo can be told to generate it - either using the
> > simple "Insert LilyPond" commmands or with more elaborate methods 
> using
> > the Scheme window to generate new Denemo Commands. If you get to 
> the
> > point of knowing what the syntax is that you want (here the
> > address@hidden list is *very* helpful) then I can help you create
> > it from Denemo.
> > 
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > address@hidden
> > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/denemo-devel
> 

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