On Tuesday, February 11, 2014, Gerold Rupprecht <geroldr@bluewin.ch> wrote:
Dear Gregory,
Thanks for trying to moderate our discussion, but your banning
appears to me as inappropriate as well as counter-productive.
I kindly request you to reverse your decision.
I feel as though it was completely justified... the
ban was not frivolous. If you do a search on the GNUstep list he is the author of such greats as "Weep for GNUstep." This is not a person who seems capable of sharing unbiased ideas and doesn't seem interested in productive discussion. Part of my responsibility on this list is to prevent that kind of thing from happening over and over again which, with him, it has. He, in my opinion, has gone far too long without some kind of action that it was completely warranted at this point.
The ban was not meant to affect freedom of speech on this list. People are free to say whatever they like here, but like any public forum there *are* limitations to freedom of speech. The rules here are very simple: Don't troll, that's really it. To define trolling... Trolling is the deliberate attempt to start a flamewar which his post obviously was. Also given his history, I felt as though it should be nipped in the bud.
In any case, the ban was never meant to be permanent. I will reinstate his access to the list tonight. I will also flip his moderation bit on so that his posts must be approved. I apologize if my action alarmed anyone or made anyone thing I was trying to squelch dissent. Dissenting opinions are the most important opinions because they make you rethink. However, I banned him not because of what he said but because of the tone in which it was presented, the insults and his previous history.
I too find flaming remarks annoying. Banning someone who despite
their abrasive tone, has taken the time and effort to install and
compile GNUstep should be listened to. The person has obviously come
back on several occasions, hoping there was more progress in several
strategic areas, and was willing to spend their time to come back to
us and investigate for himself. That alone is worth a thank you in
my opinion. What he had to say was poorly thought out because he did
not stick with addressing the problems, but attacked the character
of individuals (to be avoided - I too felt slighted). This potential
user is simply frustrated and venting off. Banning someone is
disproportionate. I too appreciate civilized discussion...
We clearly have to make some choices as what problems we want to
tackle and when, to stay relevant.
I agree with much of what he said, but my problem is with how he said it. One of his chief concerns appears to be that GNUstep is considered only an API and a development system. Perhaps it's time to change this.
I believe with efforts in certain areas, GNUstep can still prove
most useful, but the rest of the computing world is not standing
still. We have to make some strategic choices to get ahead and open
our code to a greater audience.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. GNUstep needs to advance... even if it needs to go to the extent of changing the GUI and the name and everything else. Whatever it takes to make this project better I think is what we should do as a group!
I would welcome you to take the lead on launching and guiding such
an important strategy discussion to increase collaboration between
various contributors.
I think such a discussion is long overdue.
Best wishes,
Gerold
On 10. 02. 14 19:38, Dr. H. Nikolaus
Schaller wrote:
Am 10.02.2014 um 17:45 schrieb Patryk Laurent:
Bad news: I must say that I, too, was completely
shocked by the ban.
Me too.
For a "discuss" list, it seems to me that participants
should feel free to openly express and discuss their
views.
Especially on a FSF project list. Or is freedom of speech no
longer of any importance?
How many discuss-gnustep members are even more
hesitant to do so now?
Me for example. This is the fifth attempt to write some
contribution, but I find myself deleting everything and starting
over because I think I can't say that any more.
I am also starting to wonder why I still devote so much time
for this list and such topics. Maybe because I have the feeling
that I must help to rescue the project from insignificance.
I don't like the model of only being allowed to contribute to
code and otherwise have to be silent. For that, I do not need
this project or community.