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Hi All,
good that we have a civilized discussion.
On 31/07/2017 13:04, Ivan Vučica wrote:
It's slightly unfortunate we don't have one yet, but Live
CDs like this are a good thing to address this problem. I
need to try it out... :)
The other reference was the Live VM image, very nice and polished,
by Richard. It had teh advantage of packaging "really current"
releases and debian packages.
Maybe you wonder why the talk about a "reference system"
instead of a proper "desktop environment"? I think what we
generally agreed upon is that GNUstep itself is not quite a
desktop, but a set of development libraries for writing
applications. Think Gtk, not Gnome. We need something to
show off, but as we don't quite want to discourage
particular use cases (Sparc systems running Solaris with an
old GCC, drawing directly with xlib. Or x32 Windows systems
drawing with Cairo built with cygwin) it becomes hard to say
"this is the true GNUstep environment, you should use this".
But that we should have a reference system that we can
point people to? Yes.
Indeed, we offer many options and I am proud I can run a GNUstep
Application on a Solaris server, ranging from 7 to 11, Sparc, amd64
and x86 :)
Of course however to a typical user has no real interest in that
and we assume "standard" operating system and architecture as Linux
or BSD. So we do know we want to use the Cairo backend, for example,
modern GCC or Clang, gnu make, ICU availability and most of other
dependencies without issues.
As I've always wanted to work on a light desktop using
GNUstep, I propose to
work on this :
Even if the project is not about building a desktop, a lots
of components are
already present. My idea is to write a short how-to that can
be polished along
the time. It should answer to such basic questions that are
evident for the
team but not for the others :
So in light of above comments, here's answers based on
what I would consider a 'reference' system:
- which Window Manager can I choose ? which one for that
task ?
Many would say windowmaker. This is a good option as it
integrates some of the launcher tasks, but maybe not
necessary when combined with gworkspace. I don't personally
use miniwindows so windowmaker is not of much use to me,
personally.
I use and suggest WindowMaker, but lots of more windowmanagers are
usable.
I would not dislike a system built around a more standard
WM, like Metacity. With GNUstep configured with Gtk theme,
for example.
- how should I configure GWorkspace ?
I don't use GWorkspace myself so I don't know what this
question means :)
Indeed, please ask me (in a separate thread) about the options you
want to configure. Most things are just available in user accessible
preferences and should be either tuned to cooperate with the
windowmanager or to the user's taste.
- where can I find themes ?
Yes, that is the new place of silver! fine new home! I would also
mention the yet unreleased themes in GAP:
http://svn.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/gap/trunk/bundles/themes/
Some are primitive, but Heritage, Sleek and Tango are quite usable.
One of the things you omitted is "which gnustep-gui
backend should I use?". The answer is almost certainly
"cairo". "opal" backend was not ready last time I used/wrote
it :) while "cairo" is fully functioning.
Absolutely agreed. The xlib, art and win32-gdi theme have their
special uses and even advantages, but we Cairo is what a new user
should test. Since it uses the standard fonts and renders them in a
consistent way with GTK, it gives a smooth cross-application
experience to a user. Font rendering of art is to my taste much
better, but e.g. if you open Firefox and GNUMail the font rendering
is clearly different.
Hence, starting with something light and extending it later.
Nothing related
to development but to building a working environment. I
think it can help to
attract devs because one can see what small apps /
components are missing, and
start to develop using GNUstep framework and tools.
Later this how-to can serve as a basis for better packaging
in distribs.
I'm a sysadmin, working with end users in mind, trying to
install simple, rock
and solid desktops for them. But I'm not a dev, I will have
a lot of questions
to ask...
Who wants to help ?
If I can... I will. I use and/or contribute most of the GS apps.
Riccardo
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