Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr-dev Digest, Vol 164, Issue 8

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2016-11-03 10:26 GMT+01:00 <address@hidden>:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Dolibarr-association] Dolibarr 4.0.1 (Christophe Battarel)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 10:25:57 +0100
From: Christophe Battarel <address@hiddenfr>
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Dolibarr-dev] [Dolibarr-association] Dolibarr 4.0.1
Message-ID: <2926a090-1be8-de0d-0f41-address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

Hi Maxime,

You are right about delays; but i'm so used to have no answer on the dev
list that i feel sometimes bored...

For the pmp that was stored at warehouse level, i've just read the
thread and agree with everybody but not on the solution. Ok pmp is the
value at the product level, ok the pmp field at level warehouse is more
a stock value than a pmp, but why remove the field ??? we lost an
important information.

I am so sorry to not have time to check every git commit to know what
happen in dolibarr; my studies and my 25 years of experience at a
software editor learn me that wa first discuss then code, and it is the
opposite here; someone code, commit, and then there are discussions... i
disagree with the method.

Last thing about release frequency, the arguments may be rights or
wrong, but what i see is that when a new release is out, people expect
external modules to be ready for it and it is difficult with this
frequency. i have no solution for this problem.

And last troll, i feel always strange by talking in english to french
people.

Best regards

Le 03/11/2016 ? 10:07, Maxime Kohlhaas a ?crit :
> Hi Christophe,
>
> Expecting an answer between 18:30 yesterday and 9:00 this morning is a
> bit exaggerated...
> As for the pmp by warehouse, it has been discussed and explained here
> <https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/commit/7b16482cee32b7c9cb8b2f0702bbad34d18db86b>.
>
> I'm sure you can open a discussion about datatable plugin also... On
> the opposite, we use several different modules that includes Google
> librairies, and we didn't ask for it to be integrated to avoid
> multi-sources.
>
> Regarding the roadmap, I agree we can define developments we want in
> priority, and the Feature Request on github are for me the roadmap.
> But don't forget this is a community development, so developments are
> made whenever someone feels like doing something...
>
> At last, it seems to me that after running out of arguments about
> release frequency, you "attack" on the release content. Do you hold a
> grudge or something ?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> *Maxime Kohlhaas* | Consultant associ?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> T?l : 06 33 42 92 43
>
> 2016-11-03 9:13 GMT+01:00 Christophe Battarel
> <address@hiddenfr
> <mailto:christophe.battarel@altairis.fr>>:
>
> Hello Again,
>
> Of course we have no answer as usual.
>
> Another "great" new feature is that until version 4, pmp was
> stored by warehouse, and not anymore since 4.0... why ? who
> decides ? after consulting who ?
>
> Regards
>
>
> Le 02/11/2016 ? 17:36, Charles Benke a ?crit :
>>
>> Hello Again
>>
>> Dolibarr 4.0.2 just delivered that we speak about freeze (one
>> more time the 5.0 ?)
>>
>> So keep calm and just count
>>
>> 2 month for beta version (November, December) 2 other for the
>> release candidate (Janurary, feburary) and we finaly delivery a
>> 5.0 in march ? WE don?t respect the roadmap
>>
>> SO what will be in this new version ?
>>
>> -The suppression of jquery datatables plugin, used by myList and
>> some other additional modules?, just because they made some
>> problems with dolidroid ?
>>
>> It's fine to have a roadmap in planning terms (which are not
>> required since the schedule speaks of January and July so it was
>> March and September)
>>
>> But it would be more important to have a schedule on
>> functionality is added or is removed ...
>>
>> Bien cordialement,
>>
>> Charlie Benke
>>
>> *De :*Dolibarr-dev
>> [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=address@hidden
>> <mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=address@hidden>] *De
>> la part de* Olivier Geffroy
>> *Envoy? :* jeudi 20 octobre 2016 11:08
>> *? :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding
>> <address@hidden> <mailto:address@hiddenorg>
>> *Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] [Dolibarr-association] Dolibarr 4.0.1
>>
>> It's depends of the final user
>>
>> let's says for a company (who use dolibarr) and make less than
>> 100K per month and don't have a lot of externals modules, 2
>> update per year is easy
>>
>> for a big company 1 update per year is enough and with dolibarr
>> isn't a problem to stay in 3.8 and to migrate in 4.0 and squeeze
>> the 3.9 (for example)
>>
>> my 2 cents
>>
>> 2016-10-20 10:58 GMT+02:00 Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
>> <address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>>:
>>
>> I don't understand. You say "If the major release issued
>> every 6 months was free of bug, stable and did not require
>> another install/update after barely one month to correct the
>> most glaring bugs that will not be dramatic"
>>
>> Every experimented developper know that this argument is the
>> best argument to ask to have more release than 2 per year.
>> And you ask less. So why using an argue to ask more
>> release: The more is the delay between 2 versions, the more
>> is the bug rate on production (that's why more and more
>> project are increasing the release frequency) and difficulty
>> to have a stable version is an exponential of the number of
>> feature added or modified. So your argue is just
>> incomprehensible.
>>
>> I used on production each version, as soon as it is release
>> and announced and I have no problem. Also the stability of a
>> version depends on bugs fixes during the beta period and
>> number of unit tests added when added new future. Developers
>> must work on this direction instead of an "against
>> productive" idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-10-19 21:34 GMT+02:00 Charles Benke <address@hidden
>> <mailto:address@hidden>>:
>>
>> OK
>>
>> If I follow your argumentation ? I will deliver a brand
>> new version of all my modules each week, because I have
>> decide to planned like this
>>
>> Even if the version is not enough tested, even the
>> previous release have some know bug, even if the document
>> are not upgraded ?
>>
>> And I will explain to my disgruntled customers that this
>> is a good method to make a better quality and simplify
>> their upgrade ...
>>
>> Release a version every 6 months because FOR YOU is more
>> simple is not acceptable. I do not develop modules
>> dolibarr because it is easy but because it allows users
>> to better manage their company, create growth, the
>> emploies ...
>>
>> If the major release issued every 6 months was free of
>> bug, stable and did not require another install/update
>> after barely one month to correct the most glaring bugs
>> that will not be dramatic
>>
>> The minimum straightforwardness that we can have with
>> users downloading a new major release is to explain that
>> this version DO NOT BE USED IN PRODUCTION.
>>
>> Bien cordialement,
>>
>> Charlie Benke
>>
>> *De :*Dolibarr-dev
>> [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr
>> <mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces%2Bcharles.fr>=address@hiddenorg
>> <mailto:address@hidden>] *De la part de* Laurent
>> Destailleur (aka Eldy)
>> *Envoy? :* mercredi 19 octobre 2016 17:34
>> *? :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and
>> coding <address@hidden
>> <mailto:address@hiddenorg>>
>>
>> *Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] [Dolibarr-association]
>> Dolibarr 4.0.1
>>
>> Your argue is not coherent.
>>
>> You say you want less version so you have to test your
>> module less often. It also meas your customer upgrade
>> version less often.
>>
>> So why just don't you make your tests every 2 versions.
>> Result will be same. You will work only every 1 year
>> instead of every 6 month, and your customer would be able
>> to upgrade only every 1 year (once your module is
>> validated for the version) instead of every 6 month.
>>
>> It's just your choice and the choice of your customer.
>>
>> Having a release every 1 year, means nor integrator, nor
>> users have choice. Also it means a lower quality and
>> exponentiel work to make upgrade.
>>
>> But if you prefer to upgrade your module once per year,
>> just do it. You can, it's just a choice you must do. It
>> is not because there is a new version, that you must
>> upgrade your module. If you prefer to follow a 1 year
>> release, just follow this rythm and ask you customer to
>> follow also this rythm. The only difference is that the
>> ryhtm is defined by you instead of being imposed be a
>> dolibarr low release rythm.
>>
>> And i think it is better to let integrator to decide
>> their release/upgrade frequency then having this
>> decied/forced by Dolibarr.
>>
>> 2016-10-19 16:49 GMT+02:00 Charles Benke
>> <address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>>:
>>
>> Actually I maintain 22 modules, some are simple, some
>> are complex. To test all of them correctly (use all
>> feature, modify doc, ?) each time a new major version
>> of Dolibarr is release is more than 2 full weeks long
>> for Romain an me...
>>
>> During the month a new version comes out, sales of
>> modules on dolistore are halved cut (according to my
>> information it is not related to my modules only).
>>
>> I could do as some others ? , just change the version
>> number and wait for my clients put bugs me but I do
>> not find it honest
>>
>> Most integrators with whom I work no longer wish to
>> upgrade versions as there are no major advances
>> between two versions either-called major
>>
>> The final version of each major costs money and
>> energy to NOTHING: just to show that development
>> teams are able to release two versions per year, two
>> versions full of vacuum .
>>
>> We have all been waiting for new accountancy module
>> for 2 years. The time spent to release a new version
>> will have better been employed to work on this
>> strategic module?
>>
>> Bien cordialement,
>>
>> Charlie Benke
>>
>> *De :*Dolibarr-dev
>> [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr
>> <mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces%2Bcharles.fr>=address@hiddenorg
>> <mailto:address@hidden>] *De la part de*
>> Developpement | Open-DSI
>> *Envoy? :* mercredi 19 octobre 2016 16:24
>> *? :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and
>> coding <address@hidden
>> <mailto:address@hiddenorg>>
>> *Cc :* address@hiddenorg
>> <mailto:dolibarr-association@nongnu.org>
>> *Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] [Dolibarr-association]
>> Dolibarr 4.0.1
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks to Camille for pointing the main problem :
>> Module and ratio time spend / bug / patch
>> As integrator of Dolibarr, it's not "sustainable" for
>> me to test every six month Dolibarr and the modules
>> I'm commonly using. Today I only install 3.9. Maybe
>> next year, I will uprade to 5.0 or not... depending
>> of what functions will be added or remaining
>> experimental.
>> Modules are too often broken by new version. On the
>> Dolistore you can see module labeled 3.x-4.0 who are
>> in fact broken with the last version or doesn't exist
>> for the current version of Dolibarr. I think it's not
>> good for the reputation of Dolibarr.
>> I'll be pleased to discuss about this subject in
>> Valence :-)
>>
>> Regards
>> Philippe Scoffoni - Open-DSI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 19/10/2016 ? 15:14, address@hidden
>> <mailto:address@hidden> a ?crit :
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this.
>>
>> I agree, Dolibarr migration is pretty nice !
>>
>> but only core part, modules looks more
>> problematic to update.
>>
>> Regarding communication, this is a work in
>> progress.
>>
>> Yes I saw this :) But looks again difficult. But
>> it's better :)
>>
>> From now on, we'll have systematic
>> annoucement when a major version is released,
>> minor version too, why not. A communication
>> group has been started within the fundation
>> with the goal to better communicate with the
>> community. We already are present on social
>> medias, but this dev mailing-list and the
>> dolistore customers are 2 audiences we poorly
>> communicate with (not to say not at all).
>>
>> I don't understand logic, dolibarr
>> users/community are on forum, mailinglist but
>> piority is social network, strange
>>
>> About your concerns around PRs and plugins,
>> I'm sorry you feel that way. PRs are usually
>> correctly integrated and not lost.
>>
>> Maybe now, I'll try again. But I'm not sure. My
>> fear is to lost again energy to nothing.
>>
>> Plugins are the responsibility of their
>> developers. Personnaly, our plugins are
>> upgraded with the new releases
>>
>> I'm not module developper then I don't know if is
>> complicate or not to follow release and provide.
>> As user, i prefer to have my own script and don't
>> use module. In my use case ratio time spend / bug
>> / patch is too heavy.
>>
>> Thanks a lot
>>
>> km
>>
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>> --
>>
>> EMail: address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>
>>
>> Web: http://www.destailleur.fr
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Google+:
>> https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/
>> <https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/>Facebook:
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>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10
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>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> * Dolibarr (Project leader): http://www.dolibarr.org
>> (make a donation for Dolibarr project via Paypal:
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>>
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>> --
>>
>> EMail: address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>
>>
>> Web: http://www.destailleur.fr
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Google+:
>> https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/
>> <https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/>Facebook:
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>> <https://www.facebook.com/Destailleur.Laurent>
>>
>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10
>> <http://www.twitter.com/eldy10>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> * Dolibarr (Project leader): http://www.dolibarr.org (make a
>> donation for Dolibarr project via Paypal:
>> address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>)
>>
>> * AWStats (Author) : http://awstats.sourceforge.net (make a
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>> _______________________________________________ Dolibarr-dev
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Merci d'avance a tous ceux qui vont partager la vid?o dans ma
>> signature ^^*
>>
>> *Olivier Geffroy**Consultant Informatique*
>>
>> *Le rapprochement bancaire dans Dolibarr
>> <https://youtu.be/nXRdIZltRWw>*
>>
>> *-------------------------------------*
>>
>> *Jeffinfo SARL*
>>
>> *29 rue de la Gare 59320 Ennetieres en Weppes*
>>
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> -- --------------------------------------- /Christophe Battarel
> Responsable technique Altairis/ +33 (0)9 52 71 70 96
> <tel:%2B33%20%280%299%2052%2071%2070%2096> Altairis
> <http://www.altairis.fr> - Blog <http://www.altairis.fr/blog> -
> Modules Dolibarr <http://www.altairis.fr/modules> - Twitter
> <https://www.twitter.com/altairis_fr> Financez vos projets avec
> Dolipro <http://www.dolipro.org>
> _______________________________________________ Dolibarr-dev
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-- --------------------------------------- /Christophe Battarel
Responsable technique Altairis/ +33 (0)9 52 71 70 96 Altairis
<http://www.altairis.fr> - Blog <http://www.altairis.fr/blog> - Modules
Dolibarr <http://www.altairis.fr/modules> - Twitter
<https://www.twitter.com/altairis_fr> Financez vos projets avec Dolipro
<http://www.dolipro.org>
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End of Dolibarr-dev Digest, Vol 164, Issue 8
********************************************

From:	Christophe Battarel
Subject:	Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr-dev Digest, Vol 164, Issue 8
Date:	Thu, 3 Nov 2016 11:08:20 +0100
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