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Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems
From: |
Paul Michael Reilly |
Subject: |
Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems |
Date: |
Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:00:07 -0500 |
Paul Pogonyshev <address@hidden> writes:
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > From: Paul Pogonyshev <address@hidden>
> > > Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:55:21 +0200
> > > Cc: address@hidden
> > >
> > > I think it is related to the issue I raised under topic `wish: right
> > > alt/meta
> > > to switch keyboard layout while pressed'. I.e. right Alt acts as a
> > > temporary
> > > layout switcher and so it does not look as Alt to applications.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not following: are you talking about keyboard language
> > switch invoked on MS-Windows with the Alt-SPC combination? If so,
> > then the keyboard switch works for me as I'd expect (i.e., the same as
> > it does in other Windows applications), and it doesn't affect the
> > right Alt to META mapping in any way.
>
> Well, you should have probably re-read that thread's opening message. I'm
> talking about a common function of right Alt key: it temporary (while
> pressed)
> disables the current layout and switches to English layout. I guess _that's_
> why right Alt doesn't work as Alt in Emacs for Lennart Borgman. I don't
> really
> know, though.
>
> > > I strongly believe Emacs must not do anything about it. Quite the
> > > opposite:
> > > it should properly handle Mode_switch on GNU/Linux etc. with X, so that
> > > it
> > > disables LEIM layout while it pressed.
> >
> > Are we still talking about the MS-Windows port of Emacs? Or are we
> > talking about Emacs on GNU/Linux? The OP raised the issue for
> > Windows.
>
> Now I'm talking about GNU/Linux, where Emacs is working incosistently with
> the rest of the system. It disregards Mode_switch (i.e. right Alt when
> working in the layout-disabling mode I described above) when working with
> LEIM. E.g., in Gaim, while using the Russian layout, I can type [right
> alt]-ъ
> to type the closing bracket, because Russian letter `ъ' is on the same key
> as the closing bracket in the English layout. In Emacs, typing [right alt]-ъ
> still produces `ъ'.
>
> > > If Windows lacks a way to disable this feature and make right Alt
> > > work the same way as left Alt, it's a problem of Windows, not of
> > > Emacs.
> >
> > As I said, right and left Alt keys work the same for me on MS-Windows.
>
> That's OK, but they don't work the same for Lennart, right? I'm arguing,
> that since it is system setting, Emacs shouldn't override it.
Sounds to me like Richard's intuition to punt on this issue before a
release was well placed. It does not appear to be a simple issue.
Paul seems to be saying that the right Alt key has a compelling
function for some set of Users (temporary keyboard layout disable)
while another set of Users wants to use both Alt keys for symmetric
Meta modifier keys. I suspect it is only a matter of time before some
Users belong to both sets. Providing a solution for both will
probably be very messy.
Meanwhile I am very curious to know how Eli managed to get his system
to provide both left and right Meta modifiers from the Alt keys. If
memory serves, when I last used Emacs on a Windows/2000/cygwin system,
I did not have this problem. But a freshly installed Windows/XP
system on a Dell PC with a Logictech natural keyboard does exhibit the
behavior. Windows/XP has a very complex Locale setting mechanism in
the control panel. Perhaps this is where one needs to select a
different locale, but it is not at all intuitively obvious how to do
this such that the right Alt key will map to a Meta modifier. Knowing
what locale settings Eli is using might help some.
Thanks,
-pmr
- Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Michael Reilly, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Lennart Borgman, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Pogonyshev, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems,
Paul Michael Reilly <=
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Lennart Borgman, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/12/28
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Michael Reilly, 2005/12/29
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Pogonyshev, 2005/12/29
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Richard M. Stallman, 2005/12/29
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Pogonyshev, 2005/12/30
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Richard M. Stallman, 2005/12/31
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, David Kastrup, 2005/12/31
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Eli Zaretskii, 2005/12/29
- Re: Right Alt/Meta keys on Windows systems, Paul Michael Reilly, 2005/12/29