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Re: Strange eval-after-load
From: |
David Kastrup |
Subject: |
Re: Strange eval-after-load |
Date: |
Thu, 06 Jul 2006 08:49:38 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) |
Alan Mackenzie <address@hidden> writes:
>> The change is not visible where it happens, namely at the (provide
>> 'edebug).
>
> That is WHEN the change happens. Loading edebug is the trigger.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "where", here. Do you mean the module
> whose data is changed? Or do you mean the module whose functions
> make the change? If you could say what you wanted to see and why,
> that might help me.
The code is called at (provide 'edebug), and there is no way to
a) expect this
b) see what code gets called
c) debug this.
>> > There is nothing objectionable about using the documented functional
>> > interface `def-edebug-spec'.
>
>> Straw man. Nobody objected to its use. What is objectional is that
>> its call happens at the (provide 'edebug) line without any visible
>> indication in edebug.el, and without any user-accessible variables or
>> hook that would allow for inspection and modification of the behavior.
>
> Don't all hooks work this way?
No. All hooks get called by
(run-hooks 'some-hook)
or equivalent. You see the place where it happens, you can debug it,
and you can check and/or change some-hook in order to control what
gets done.
> What do you mean by "visible"? I'm sorry, but the rest of the
> paragraph is too vague to make any sense to me. A call happening
> without user-accessible variables or a hook is like a cuckoo clock
> chiming without Pythagoras's theorem.
It is by now abundantly clear that you choose not to understand and
will discount anything one says in the way of explanation.
>> A user won't have cause to be surprised if he added eval-after-load
>> himself. But expecting and tracking every such use that might be
>> hidden in Emacs' code base is a bit much.
>
> It's no more or less difficult that tracking down every place a hook
> is used.
Wrong. Because one _sees_ the hook getting called in the code, and
the hook has a name, and its contents can be checked.
> eval-after-load is conceptually the same as add-hook. Why is using
> e-a-l worse than using LaTeX-mode-hook, for example?
Because there is a
(run-hook 'LaTeX-mode-hook) in LaTeX-mode explicitly (or implicitly as
part of a define-major-mode or define-derived-mode).
Because you can check LaTeX-mode-hook. Because the point of time
where it is called is well-defined and visible.
>> The reasons have been cited to you several times and it is in the
>> manual which also has been cited to you.
>
> Resorts to hand waving abstractions have been made, but no descent
> to the concrete.
It is clear that you won't accept anything with a different conclusion
than what you want.
I am sorry I wasted my time in that manner.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, (continued)
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Thien-Thi Nguyen, 2006/07/04
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/04
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Alan Mackenzie, 2006/07/04
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Nick Roberts, 2006/07/04
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Eli Zaretskii, 2006/07/04
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Alan Mackenzie, 2006/07/05
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, David Kastrup, 2006/07/05
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Alan Mackenzie, 2006/07/06
- Re: Strange eval-after-load,
David Kastrup <=
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/07
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Alan Mackenzie, 2006/07/07
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/05
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/05
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Alan Mackenzie, 2006/07/05
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/03
- Re: Strange eval-after-load, Richard Stallman, 2006/07/03