Re: 23.0.60; Feature request: Menu item "load init files" after -q/-Q

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Stefan Monnier writes:
 > >> But that's the issue: if sending mail works "reliably" from "emacs -Q"
 > >> there's no need for "load .emacs".
 > 
 > > That's your issue, which I agree is an issue, though I don't see how
 > > you propose to address it via "load .emacs".
 > 
 > You said: "it will normally be fixed by loading the init files".

Please, don't be argumentative.  I'm just trying to explain why
communication broke down.  Obviously, when I write "it", "it" refers
to my issue, not yours.  The ambiguity is inherent, but I was unable
to see what you were talking about because I don't consider it an
Emacs issue to be solved in Emacs.

 > >> sends it to someone who'll drop it as "spam",
 > > PEBKAC, not solvable at our end AFAICS.
 > 
 > Not PEBCAK at all.  Most machines nowadays which have /usr/sbin/sendmail
 > have it misconfigured

OK, so it's a PEBMAKAC: Problem Existing Between Mail Admin's Keyboard
And Chair.  Still not something we can do anything about.

 > And you may not even know your ISP and his SMTP server (e.g. in
 > most hotpspots).

Speak for yourself; my SMTP server speaks TLS on a port not blocked by
my ISP's firewall. :-)  But of course that's unusual as yet.

 > In many cases, the only reliable way for the user
 > to send an email is via a webmail application.

In that case, what you really want is to simply disable bug reporting
by mail, and rewrite the whole system to directly inject the report
into debbugs via port 80.  (Note that this essentially takes us back
to the days of UUCP, but I guess we don't have much choice.)
Alternatively allow sufficiently smart users to register and use TLS.

However, I don't see what this has to do with the current situation
where we are discussing why it is useful to have a "Load init file"
button for "emacs -q" in an environment where newbies will be asked to
run that to debug, taking them out of their familar environment (which
may be massively customized in defaults.el, for all we know).

If you think that the only interesting customization is
`mail-user-agent' and you think that mail is essentially useless
nowadays, then just stamp this whole discussion "wontfix".  I consider
that a competitive advantage for XEmacs[1], and won't complain at all if
you do! ;-)

Footnotes: 
[1]  No trade secrets, I've already told you why.  Let he who channels
the users best win!