Installation, activation and setup of packages (e.g. Gnus) (was: Integrating package.el)

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:42:47 -0500 Stefan Monnier <address@hidden> wrote: 

>> seems like this is something external to Gnus, a function of the ELPA
>> wrapper (although it may be bundled within Gnus) rather than something
>> Gnus will always run for new users.  This is the major question I have
>> before I propose this packaging on the Gnus mailing list.

SM> I don't think it needs to be external to Gnus.  You're basically asking
SM> for a Gnus wizard, I think.

Yeah, "gnus/assistant.el" is capable enough to do it.  It's been on my
TODO list for a while to write some basic configuration assistants.

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:27:31 +0100 Reiner Steib <address@hidden> wrote: 

RS> On Tue, Jan 05 2010, Ted Zlatanov wrote:

Ted> The usual pre-install and post-install scripts you find in RPM
Ted> or DEB would help.

RS> Those don't start per-user setup.  The (missing) setup process (using
RS> Gnus half-done assistant.el or anything else) is per-user: configuring
RS> news server, mail sources, IMAP, SMTP.

>> I think the pre-install and post-install steps are pretty important.
>> Without them, packaging Gnus doesn't do much.  I want the post-install
>> to actually set up the user's Gnus configuration.  This has been a very
>> common complaint about Gnus.  

RS> I don't think the purpose of package.el is to do or start the user
RS> setup.  The Gnus assistant is supposed to be run when a *user* fires
RS> up Gnus for the first time, which is after the package is already
RS> installed and "activated" (by the *administrator*).  I would oppose to
RS> mix admistrative tasks (installation) with user setup.

Well, this can be debated for a while.  I think users expect an
installed package to work (Gnus doesn't do much if just installed) and
it's convenient to set it up when installed instead of later.  System
packages these days are commonly set up like that, e.g. Postfix on a
Debian system asks several basic setup questions IIRC.

OTOH it's often painful to have to answer setup questions when you're
installing packages, especially when you don't want or don't have an
interactive session.

My proposal is:

1) at least show a message when installing Gnus that the first-time
assistant can be run with commands X and Y.  If the session is
interactive, ask the user if he wants to do it now.  This requires some
package.el support.

2) make Gnus smarter about starting up without any configuration.  The
assistant should run automatically in this case.  As a start, provide
links to the documentation, but work on making the assistant interactive
and capable of setting up news server, mail sources (IMAP or POP), an
IMAP server, a Maildir, SMTP, etc.  GMail should have a specific setup
path since it's so popular.  This is entirely on the Gnus side.

Ted