Re: bug#23750: 25.0.95; bug in url-retrieve or json.el

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Philipp Stephani <address@hidden>
> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 18:18:25 +0000
> Cc: address@hidden, address@hidden, address@hidden, 
>       address@hidden
> 
>  > > That's right -- why should any code care? Yet url.el does.
>  >
>  > No, it doesn't, not if the string is plain ASCII.
>  >
>  > But in that case it isn't, it's morally a byte array.
> 
>  Yes, because the internal representation of characters in Emacs is a
>  superset of UTF-8.
> 
> That has nothing to do with characters. A byte array is conceptually 
> different from a character string.

In Emacs, they are both implemented using very similar objects.

>  > What Emacs lacks is good support for byte arrays.
> 
>  Unibyte strings are byte arrays. What do you think we lack in that regard?
> 
> If unibyte strings should be used for byte arrays, then the URL functions 
> should indeed signal an error
> whenever url-request-data is a multibyte string, as HTTP requests are 
> conceptually byte arrays, not character
> strings.

Which is what we do now.

>  > For HTTP, process-send-string shouldn't need to deal
>  > with encoding or EOL conversion, it should just accept a byte array and 
> send that, unmodified.
> 
>  I disagree. Handling unibyte strings is a nuisance, so Emacs allows
>  most applications be oblivious about them, and just handle
>  human-readable text.
> 
> That is the wrong approach (byte arrays and character strings are 
> fundamentally different types, and mixing
> them together only causes pain), and it cannot work when implementing network 
> protocols. HTTP requests
> are *not* human-readable text, they are byte arrays. Attempting to handle 
> Unicode strings can't work because
> we wouldn't know the number of encoded bytes.

You are arguing against a long and quite painful history of non-ASCII
strings in Emacs.  What we have now is based on a lot of experience
and at least two very large refactoring jobs.  Going back would be a
very bad idea indeed, as we've been there already, and users didn't
like that.  Some of us are old enough to remember the notorious \201
bytes creeping into text files and mail messages, due to that.  Never
again.

Our experience is that we should keep use of unibyte strings in Lisp
application code to the absolute minimum, ideally zero.  Once we
arrived at that conclusion, we've been living happily ever after.
This minor issue we are discussing here is certainly not worth
repeating past mistakes for which we paid plenty in sweat and blood.