Re: [O] A Microsoftesque detail in org

[Rainer M Krug]

Brett Witty <address@hidden> writes:

> I agree with Rasmus' position. Just because the org format is plain text,
> doesn't mean the Emacs keybindings have to act identically to, say,
> Notepad. Otherwise, what's Emacs for? Similarly, I don't expect TAB to
> insert tabs into an org-mode document.
>
> While there can be a bit of a culture shock getting used to org's "do the
> useful thing" as opposed to "do the literal thing", I think it's an
> advantage of the system, not a disadvantage. Headers are sacred in
> org-mode, so breaking headers with RET seems suboptimal when there's vastly
> more things you'd care about. Similarly in tables, or drawers or timestamps
> or...

OK - this makes sense. But instead of jumping to the next line, a
splitting of the header into two would make more sense, keeping the
correct syntax.

Jumping to the next line is actually counter intuitive, as this is pure
movement.

Cheers,

Rainer

>
> That said, it would be nice to have some sort of customization variable to
> allow the literal behaviour, but set by default to the current behaviour
> (similar to org-support-shift-select).
>
> BrettW
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:15 AM, Rasmus <address@hidden> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jarmo,
>>
>> Jarmo Hurri <address@hidden> writes:
>>
>> > Rasmus <address@hidden> writes:
>>
>> >> With your behavior you can (i) break the TODO tag; (ii) break the
>> cookie;
>> >> (iii) break the tag.  At least (i) and (ii) are quite destructive.
>> >
>> > I am not sure what you mean, since a single undo will always heal the
>> > line again, regardless of where you break it.
>>
>> Sure.  But that seems orthogonal to the problem at hand.  Re (i): Assume
>> TODO is keyword.  We don't know that TO is.  Re (ii): [#B] is a cookie.
>> [#B is not.  (iii) iii :tag: is a tag :ta is not.  The editor should not
>> easily produce invalid syntax.
>>
>> In any case it's very easy to rebind keys in a hook.  If you write a
>> org.texi patch on how to get purist keybindings we can add it.
>>
>> > I am a BIG fan of the Org mode slogan "Your life in plain text." The
>> > power of plain text has been demonstrated over and over again. You can
>> > run text manipulating commands on it, you can process it with a large
>> > array of different programming languages.
>>
>> Nobody is disputing that.
>>
>> > An undo is a basic text editing feature that everyone should
>> > know. Reassigning non-standard behaviour to the return key is - in my
>> > opinion - against the ideology.
>>
>> I see that you use Gnus.  Did you by any change use RET to open the
>> article?  It's bound to gnus-summary-scroll-up.
>>
>> In Emacs25, or maybe even before, RET in at least lisp mode started to
>> indent automatically via electric-indent-mode.  Are you against this?
>>
>> What I will agree on is that it would be better if Org used more
>> "standard" mechanism and e.g. cleverly hooked newline.  However, Org
>> targets a number of versions of Emacs (ATM: 23-25), making this hard.
>>
>> >> The attached patch re-enables breaks in region four of
>> >> org-complex-heading-regexp, i.e. from the cookie up to tags.  A quick
>> >> test suggests it works nicely.
>> >>
>> >> WDYT?
>> >
>> > Given enough time, I could come up with a situation where I would run a
>> > keyboard macro in which I would expect the return key to break the line,
>> > regardless of where I was on that line (in a tag or whatever).
>>
>> In that case there's C-o C-e or M-x newline...
>>
>> > I am a very minor player in this game, but I would really, _really_ like
>> > Org to remain as true to it's slogan as possible.
>>
>> I'm still don't see this point.  There's Org, "the format", which should
>> ideally be easy to use in any editor (I wrote a basic syntax parser for
>> texworks).  It's plaintext.  Then there's org-mode, the principal editor
>> of Org.  It supposed to be a nice environment for composing text.
>>
>> —Rasmus
>>
>> --
>> This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put
>>
>>
>>

-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, 
UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :       +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
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email:      address@hidden

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