[Fsfe-uk] Re: [Northwales] OSS in Schools

[Richard Smedley]

cc'd to fsfe-uk as original message was forwarded their at Phil's request...

On Friday 13 October 2006 23:17, Oli wrote:
> > Sorry to rant on. Let me have your thoughts.
>
> Having read this a few days ago, I thought I would wait a day or so to
> add my two pence to the debate.
>
> I am writing this in a personal capacity, as professionally, I have a
> close working relationship with WAG, and have been involved with IT,
> in both the public and private sector for a number of years.

Hello Oli,

Sounds like you bear the scars ;-)

> Firstly, yes, it would be nice to see more Linux in schools - but its
> not going to happen.  For a number of reasons which geek types never
> seem to grasp.
>
> Cost.  This is the major one.  So the software is free.  Big deal.  To
> all extent and purposes, Windows is basically free as well.  With the
> fantastic deals M$ have done for the public sector in the past few
> years, licensing in schools is not the issue it is for the SME's of
> this world.

Only the dimmest of advocates talks of costs of software /licensing/
as a major factor in schools (although note that in certain circumstances
it is a consideration).

The major cost is hardware, followed by admin time (typically 4 times 
longer keeping MS Windoes boxes up).

One schol I know in Skegness has saved so much money by using
Free Software on an LTSP set-up that they've built a new building
and employed an extra part-time IT teacher with the budget savings =o)

> A much bigger cost is the cost of converting ALL the bespoke software
> which runs on Windows, and need to be used as part of the curriculum.
> Yes, you can use Wine, but its not the same, is it?

To repeat a point from my last e-mail:
>>
£1,000,000,000 gets spent each year on IT in schools in the UK. At
the moment this includes £110,000,000 per year on proprietary ``curriculum''
software [4], despite the fact that 5% of that would see Free Software written
to cover _every_ aspect of the curriculum :-(
<<

iow every area of curriculum software needs could be addressed _permanently_
for a fraction of what is currently spent _annually_
Using web-based software, this could be parcelled out to programmers across 
the UK (remember when we all bought British ;^) and would work across all
desktop platforms, freeing hardware and OS choice from lock-in.

> Finally, you have the issue of Drivers.  Is there a suitable
> whiteboard driver available for all versions of Linux, which works
> faultlessly with the manufacturer software?  Does it work with all the
> different brands of whiteboard? How about all the other bespoke
> hardware for science and other subjects?

I'll save the farce of the soi-disant ``interactive'' whiteboards for 
another mail :-/

> These are just the technical issues.
>
> Next you have the training and practical problems.  Is there enough
> knowledge available in the average school to be able to deal with a
> kid who's just downloaded a unix file which breaks KDE?  What happens
> when the sound goes on the blink? What about all the work the kids did
> two years ago on Office which just doesn't convert properly in
> OpenOffice?

Perhaps you are unaware that under BSF schools will, in any case, lose control 
over IT installations and support?
Nevertheless, LTSP makes admin and support childsplay - each school can have 
an LTSP server, supported by ssh from the LEA - and broken clients are 
replaced in 30 seconds :-)

> Considering that the IT work is expected to be on MS Office, what
> happens if they submit work on OpenOffice and the examiners can't open
> it?  Will the kids not get a grade, and who will have to pay the
> compensation?

There is nothing in either the National Curriculum, nor in BECTA's 
recommendations, to justify that comment. BECTA have insisted to me that they 
equally support OOo with other office suites.

Many other countries already mandate the use of the ODF format ussed as 
standard by OOo. Of course UK will be at the trailing edge here, but in the 
meantime BECTA do /recommend/ open file formats, and OOo will save in 
proprietary MS formats should a backwards teacher insist.

> Sorry for all the doom and gloom, but you will need to be able to
> answer this type of question to be in with half a chance of getting
> anywhere!

Doom and gloom is inevitable when dealing with the British education system 
(well, England and Wales, anyway - Scotland isn't always so bad). However 
just keep looking at the success stories - here and overseas - and work with 
schoolforge UK. There's grounds for cautious optimism ;-)

> There is however, an alternative. Forget trying to get Linux on the
> desktop.  Its a lost cause. 

Linux is just one kernel - I'm interested in getting any Free Software stack 
in front of the next generation. GNU or BSD.
For the last decade it's been near-impossible to find employable 
school-leavers, due to the damage done to their understanding of computers 
while using DOS and MS Windows. Every other GNU/Linux company I talk to 
reports the same problem :-(
Read up on the success of pupils from schools like Skegness - either in my 
articles, or in 

http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar

page 7 of:
http://www.schoolsnetwork.org.uk/uploads/documents/ictupdatesp06_122253.pdf

http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Case_Studies

http://casestudy.seul.org/cgi-bin/caseview0.pl    [ignoring comment spam]

& blogs like Miles Berry's:

http://elgg.net/mberry/weblog/125221.html
http://elgg.net/mberry/weblog/125299.html

http://elgg.net/mberry/weblog/

> The big money in education currently is 
> in VLE's (Virtual Learning Enviroments) - the best news is that
> Schools have an OSS option in Moodle.  THIS is where the advantage of
> the no cost, Linux solution comes in.

Berry (see above) is a persuasive advocate of Moodle in primary schools.
Note that Moodle is so much more than a VLE - and is very successful
at bringing children into learning who hang back in class, and don't stick 
their hands up with the answers.

Moodle is also used by more than 50% of the UK's FE colleges, and the largest 
roll-out (to 100,000 clients) has just been started by the OU.

> Read up on it - It realy is a great success story for OSS and could
> and has saved a huge fortune for the schools who've gone down this
> route.
>
> Finally, don't compare Wales to Spain!  It might well be true, but the
> only way you are going to convince any changes is to point at the
> successes of OSS in England.  Using the idea that a much richer area
> has decided to go down the OSS route because its better, works.
> Saying that a nation of Donkey Hurders (Sorry Spain, its just a
> humourous analogy with no malice intended!) chose this option because
> they couldn't afford anything better doesn't work!

Spain is one of the world's top ten economies, and comparing our car industry 
(say) to theirs gives us little room for comments about donkeys :-(

Cost _is_ important to tax payers (myself included). Free software can win on 
cost. But as stated above, and elsewhere, there are technical and pedagogical 
grounds for choosing Free Software :-)

Faced with a nine-figure sum poured into the pit of proprietary software each 
year, and another generation of point-and-drool ignoramuses turned out at 
great expense by our schools, it would be criminal not to try and act to 
change things :-/

Getting back on-topic to the needs of Welsh schools:
``Mae Linux yn arbennig o dda ar gyfer ieithoedd fel Cymraeg, a gafodd eu 
hanwybyddu yn y gorffenol gan cynhyrchwyr mawr meddalwedd, o achos mae'n 
gadael i'r defnyddiwr newid yn ôl ac ymlaen rhwng ieithoedd, ac nid oes angen 
arsefydlu rhaglenni ychwanegol arbennig i drin acenion fel y to bach (^). 
Rydym yn credu y bydd KOffice yn rhoi cyfle ardderchog i siaradwyr a dysgwyr 
Cymraeg ddefnyddio'r iaith mewn rhan arall o fywyd bob dyd.''
Kevin Donnelly, Kywaith Kyfieithu (http://www.kyfieithu.co.uk) [1]

Initiatives like this give good Welsh language support right across the 
stack - the same argument that has seen GNU/Linux installations in minority 
language areas from South Africa to Mallorca.

> Please take the above an an opinion which you may or may not agree
> with - however, if I was in your shoes, its certainly the tact I would
> take.

Of course - the wider range of opinions that Phil gets the better. He'll have 
to be prepared for many such arguments ;-D

Regards,

Pob hwyl,

 - Richard

[1] Translation: ``GNU/Linux is especially good for languages such as Welsh, 
which have been ignored in the past by large software makers, because it 
allows the user to switch back and forth between several languages, and there 
is no need to install special add-in programs to handle accent marks like 
the "to bach" (^). We believe that KOffice gives Welsh speakers and learners 
a great opportunity to use Welsh in another area of daily life.''

btw apologies to list admins for cross-posting - if you feel aggrieved then 
please take the matter up with me at the LinuxWorld bar ;-)

-- 
Richard Smedley,                                         address@hidden
Sustainable IT Consultant
                                 ``Software Freedom for the Voluntary Sector''

***Worried by the disappearance of MOST?
***Interested in the future of Free Software in the 3rd sector?
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