Re: MAME emulator is giving incentive to use non-free software

[Nils Gillmann]

Jean Louis <address@hidden> writes:

> Hello,
>
> - when a package definition includes "Homepage to: http://mamedev.org/";
>   then GuixSD is endorsing and referencing non-free software for which
>   MAME was made, while you maybe refer to software package alone.
>
> - if developers include MAME, WINE and other emulators that are
>   basically foundation to run non-free software, they will be definitely
>   dividing people, just as non-free software is dividing people.
>
> Let us see example of "dividing people":
>
> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/can-i-get-games-wine-working-trisquel
>
> A user have seen there is Wine in Trisquel, and of course, asks for
> support. The answer is: "We won't assist you in running proprietary
> software of any kind on this forum, it would violate our Community
> Guidelines." -- which is clearly dividing people. It is rejecting the
> user.
>
> People get involved into discussion of running or not running non-free
> software:
> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/some-wonderings-wine-and-playonlinux
>
> The guy has used Wine to write documentation, but he could as well then
> use it without inclusion in the distribution:
> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/wine-even-useful-anything-other-proprietary-software
>
> There is whole list of supposedly "free software" that runs on Wine:
> https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?bIsQueue=false&bIsRejected=false&sClass=application&sTitle=Browse+Applications&sReturnTo=&iId=0&iItemsPerPage=25&iPage=1&iappVersion-licenseOp0=5&sappVersion-licenseData0=Open+Source&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true&iItemsPerPage=200
>
> However such list is deceptive. If user follows the development of Wine,
> user is going to see or browse package definitions, will see the Wine
> website and then numerous numerous pointers to non-free software:
> https://appdb.winehq.org/index.php (let me know if you fail to see the
> thumbnails of non-free games in the Platinum list or any of the
> thumbnails in the Gold list or Silver list).
>
> It is free software package that is made to support non-free
> packages. It should not be included in free software distributions,
> because free software distributions shall not point, reference and
> otherwise distribute software that helps the majority of users to run
> non-free software.
>
> Inclusion of homepage of Wine in the package definition is endorsing
> platforms (Wine) to run non-free software. Who wish to run it, is
> free. Software is free, right? But why would that need to be included in
> any free software distribution?!

I include (home-page) in packages because I see it just as useful
data associated with the software I packaged.

> The reason is:
>
> - it is going to definitely reject people, and cause community support
>   problems. Look into the future. There will be 100, 500, 5000 and
>   50,000 users in the future, maybe 100,000 and later million users.
>
> - when thinking of future, users will come who have downloaded MAME,
>   they will discuss on forums, in mailing lists, in bug reports,
>   something like: "How can I run this ROM?" or "How can I ran World of
>   Warcraft?" -- and what are you going to tell people then? Please, go
>   elsewhere, because we don't run free software and don't give support
>   for free software. That is dividing people. Obviously Wine/Mame and
>   any other emulator is problematic for future of the communities.

If we drop it, there will be very likely inofficial repositories
carrying it, like there are now for custom packaged non-free
software. And those people will end up coming to our chat and
lists, and we have to deal with it somehow in distancing us very
clearly from third party packages (if not already done so).

Also, I don't see those questions regulary on other distros I
ran/was part of. Almost no one asked about how to run certain games
or emulator parts.. But that might just be my experience.

> I cannot understand the rationalization and justifications based on the
> single fact how WINE/MAME or other similar emulators are free software
> by themselves, and that is the only reason to include them, but let us
> avoid all the reality about that, that those platforms are being
> developed for the major purpose of running non-free software. It does
> not play alone. It is hypocrisy.
>
> Jean Louis
>
>

-- 
ng
personal contact: http://krosos.sdf.org
EDN: https://wiki.c3d2.de/EDN