Re: Emacs-Guix released outside from Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi Alex,

Alex Kost <address@hidden> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès (2016-12-15 18:39 +0100) wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex!
>>
>> Alex Kost <address@hidden> skribis:
>>
>>> Hello, I've been working on Emacs interface outside from the Guix repo
>>> for some time, I mean I'm not going to maintain it inside Guix, sorry :-(
>>>
>>> The main reason, is, well, inconvenience for me: I don't like to bother
>>> people with patches, etc.  I tried to explain it at
>>> <http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-07/msg01091.html>.
>>
>> As someone who’s always trusted you to do the right thing, I’m of course
>> disappointed that we Guix folks didn’t get notified nor consulted before
>> the fact.  I would also have loved a reply to my message back then¹.
>> That’s your choice though.
>>
>> ¹ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-07/msg01110.html
>
> I'm sorry for not answering, I thought I was clear at the time.

I thought I was clear too, that message called for your feedback (and
this one does too!).  Dialog is a two-way street.

> I always feel uncomfortable to send patches or to push commits to the
> Guix repo.  I can't explain it properly, it's just painful all the
> time; but more importantly, it slowed down the development, as I often
> decided not to do small changes.  Contrary, I made more commits to the
> Emacs-Guix source tree in the past month, than to the Guix repo during
> the whole year.

I have the same questions as John: what is it that made you feel
uncomfortable?  I stated clearly multiple times that you are effectively
“sudoer” on this code.

Let’s reflect on this for all the future Alexes that come around.  If
you are in my position, what do you do to make it so that the next Alex
feels comfortable and happy with this workflow?  What does it take to
avoid an “Alexit”?  :-)

That’s an honest question: I cannot state what I did wrong, but I’d like
to learn so it doesn’t happen again.

>> This change will prevent joint feature development (updating
>> completions, ‘emacs-build-system’ and how it interacts with the Emacs
>> UI, M-x guix, cross-cutting changes to the UI, and so on).  This isn’t
>> good news for users.
>>
>> Breakage will occasionally occur as the Guix APIs change, which will
>> make us all a bit sad.  What are your thoughts?
>
> Well, I was going to make a release and to update the 'emacs-guix'
> package after fixing such a breakage.  Actually this way doesn't look
> worse for me: when breakages happened in the past, the only way to fix
> it was to update 'guix-devel' package.

That will be even harder with separate projects.

What about joint feature development (see above)?

>>> So I'd like to add 'emacs-guix' package (the current patchset) and to
>>> remove it from the Guix source tree, if you don't mind.
>>
>> I think “if you don’t mind” is misplaced.
>
> No, it's not misplaced; not sure what you mean.

Saying “if you don’t mind” for a decision that is effectively imposed on
others without discussion is harsh, to put it mildly.

>> I’ll let you take care of the actual removal, along with update to the
>> Texinfo cross-references and doc/htmlxref.cnf (assuming the manual will
>> be available on-line.)
>
> Ahem, it will not, at least not soon.
>
>> I think it would help users to keep
>> cross-references between the two manuals.
>
> Emacs-Guix manual has many links to the Guix manual, but I think a
> single mention of Emacs-Guix in the Guix manual will be enough.  I have
> not looked at updating cross-references in the Guix manual yet, though.

Sadness.  I think users won’t be happier.  :-/

Pardon me for being grumpy, I’m just feeling sad and frustrated.

Ludo’.