[rgui-dev] Re: Gutopia-dev Digest, Vol 1, Issue 44

[Thorsten Roggendorf]

Hi,

This Email answers a couple of mails from the the list.


To Massimiliano:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sorry for criticizing the CLI. The only app I still know that uses CLI
is gnuplot and various shells and editors. And imho it makes only sense
in a shell. But well, if you know and like other apps with CLI sorry for
ranting. Note that I was not talking about Execution Parameters and
parameter files. Most apps I use don't have a GUI. But giving some
parameters on execution and defining tons of others in parameter files
is no CLI. And I think a meta-interface project should not focus on
empowering people to develop the next bash, vimim or whatever. The real
power of the command line lies in programmable interfaces. That is imho
aimed too high for a first shot meta-interfaces.
Another apology: the design proposal was done without spending too much
time or effort. 


to Tom Sawyer:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> okay, here's what i divised. i used Yaml for the file format of the inter=
> face.

The definition looks pretty clean. Does yaml use indention for scoping?
 
> don't be taken aback by the length of this. Yaml does have shortcuts for=20
> shorting things onto one-liners, but that's not important. the important=20
> thing is clearity and explicitness.

Agreed. As long as boilerplate is kept down below 5% or something ...

> #
> # Meta-Interface Definition for EclipseCalculator
> #
> model: eclipse

This looks really good and intuitive. If you bring in another language
you *might* scare of people though ... or maybe not? Who knows ... I
think it does not matter all that much. First it needs to be decided,
what metaphor to use, and which (levels of) abstractions. If all really
is as simple as it looks in this example, one could easily hack together
a GUI for editing the tree. BTW: the whole thing starts looking like
glade. Are we reinventing the wheel? Could glade xml files be used as a
meta interface definition? 


to Kero van Gelder:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Embedding toolkits within each other is not always possible.
> mainloop() or whatever it is called does not let start another.

Good to know. So to make this whole hypothetical project work, all major
backends are essential ... not very realistic.


to transami:
^^^^^^^^^^^
> (by the way, i was a bit confused by OK, Apply, Cancel  vs. Action)

My fault. I did not think much about it. I wanted to show how something
like this could look.

> class EclipseCalculator [...]

I think the class should be as nested as the definition.

> can you give me a rough example of a CORBA result?

I can't write CORBA, I can only read it. It could look similar to the
ruby class you devised. Or it could be more nested. The enmtries grouped
with the ok/cancel/apply buttons could also be used as arguments to one
function call.


Kero van Gelder
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Users do not "Open a File" without semantics, even though history made
> them do so. Admitted, i have no better name here (probably because
> there is nothing to load for eclipses, only need to know the place on
> earth).

Well, right, sorry, quickshot.

> Are "save", "help" supposed to be functional descriptions? So the menu
> knows what to do?

No. I don't think that is possible in a general way. Callbacks have to
be generated.

> Why not make a Date? Why restrict to 1900..2050, you want more
> millenium problems? Ruby's Date class has no such restrictions, so
> that' s solved already.

I was in need of an example and hacked it in as I thought it up. Sorry.
I think the date entry is a good example for something that could
readily become a seperate component.

> I suggest button("Action", callback = ...), since your array contains
> widget descriptions. Consistency is important.

Agreed

> just curious, what program is going to use the XML, then?

Parameter files are important for letting programs interact without user
interference. The eclipse app is not a good example for something that
depends on parameter files, but if you insist, I can try coughing up
some far fetched idea ;-)

> except for the '$'.

Shame on me. I was tired and wanted to get the mail finished. I swear I
almost never use globals. Really. Relly, really, really. You must
believe me ;-)


   Thorsten