Re: emacs mode line suggestions

[Richard Riley]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> > This is help-gnu-emacs. It's for getting help about using Emacs.
>> 
>> But it should not be too disturbing to gauge Emacs user's views on
>> certain issues. The nature of a Help group often means there are more
>> new users and new users are often a catalyst for new and good 
>> ideas. Any half decent news reader features thread kill and keeping
>> most in one or two threads is not disrupting. In addition discussion
>> threads on functionality are often educational - many such threads
>> have taught me new things about how and why things are in Emacs.
>
> You can do as you like, of course; I'm not moderating this mailing list. I'm
> really just trying to help.
>
> The point is that such discussions are part of the _purpose_ of emacs-devel, 
> and
> help-gnu-emacs has a different purpose. If you want to influence Emacs
> developers to make changes, emacs-devel is the place. To get changes made, 
> there
> will ultimately need to be a discussion at emacs-devel anyway - might as well
> put it there to begin with.

You seem to miss the point slightly. Many beginners do not, for obvious
reasons, frequent emacs development. And it is beginners I was referring
to.

>
> Can discussion of possible Emacs improvements be educational and helpful for
> users, new and old? Yes, of course. Absolutely. Users who are interested in
> reading or participating in such discussions can subscribe to emacs-devel.
> Personally, I encourage that. In the world of Emacs _in particular_, there is 
> no
> clear separation between user and designer or implementor.

Nearly all users tend to develop their own add ons and/or
customisations. Looks at the far reaching Icicles for a good example :-;
It would be a pretty poor sample if the the only new users you could
discuss things with were the ones willing and able to subscribe to emacs
development. Few users do. And having read some of the sniping there one
can readily see why :-;

>
> Any and all users - new and old - who are interested in such discussion: 
> Please
> subscribe to emacs-devel, whether you just want to lurk or you want to
> contribute. That will help improve both emacs-devel and Emacs. People, myself
> included, sometimes complain that emacs-devel is not open enough or is too set
> in its ways. The remedy for that is for more people to participate.

If you want to discuss hard core stuff then yes I would concur. But
gauging NEW users feeling about certain emacs defaults can hardly be
done if there are no new users there. And you are an optimist if you
feel that new users will be subscribing to emacs development where it
can be slightly frightening for the non clued in new user IMO.

While I realise you are not policing per se, I find it hard to agree
with you that a discussion about some emacs basics here is a bad thing
since the kind of people whose input would be most valuable are indeed
here. Consider the "help" part of the group name as including helping
people understand why certain things are as they are or even "help"ing
someone come to a design suggestion on how to improve it.