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RE: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup g
From: |
Drew Adams |
Subject: |
RE: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...] |
Date: |
Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:01:52 -0700 (PDT) |
> For the record, I do believe that Gnus is "worse" (for lack of a better
> term) than Emacs as a whole.
Sounds like it, in terms of being new-user friendly at least.
> To maybe illustrate what I was getting at before, though, I conducted the
> following thought experiment:
>
> I pretended that I have never used Emacs, but I know that in
> addition to editing text it can do many other things; and I am
> seated at a machine on which it is installed. I am a reasonably
> intelligent person, who has some experience of computers on some
> platform or platforms. What questions occur to me just as I
> browse through the menus?
>
> File
> - Why do I have five print options, and what's the difference?
> - Why when I click "New Window Below" do I not get a new window?
>
> Edit
> - What's a "face"?
>
> Tools
> - Why do I read Net News with Gnus and send mail with Gnus
> but *read* mail with RMAIL?
> - Why doesn't encryption work?[1]
Consider suggesting specific improvements for menus:
`M-x report-emacs-bug'. Seriously.
> I don't mean to suggest these questions don't have answers--clearly they
> do. But these are things I thought of in the 30 seconds it took me to
> conduct my thought experiment, and I only actually tried to do two
> things: open a new window (i.e., what I "thought" was a window was a frame
> and vice versa) and use the menu to encrypt a file. I'm sure there are
> more.
Mouseover text can sometimes help describe what a menu item does. For
`New Frame', for instance, it could say "Open a new frame (window-manager
window)" instead of just "Open a new frame".
But that probably won't help much for an item like `New Window Below'.
I suppose it could add "(frame pane)" or "(pane)" after "window" in the
help, but at some point this becomes too much.
So yes, there is a certain amount of terminological difficulty that only
help (e.g. `describe-key'), the doc (e.g. the manual), the tutorial,
Emacs Wiki, or trial and error will teach.
The terminology is a bit of a special case, however. Once past the
basic-terminology hurdle and the how-do-I-access-help hurdle, things go more
smoothly.
> If I try to start from a blank slate (via emacs -Q) and then select Gnus
> (Gnus being what the original question was about in the old thread), I
> get nntp (news) open error: '>>>(error Unknown host "news")'. Continue?
>
> That has the virtue of telling me what's wrong, but gives me essentially
> no information on how to fix it.
My advice is to file a (usability) bug: `M-x report-emacs-bug'.
> Complexity itself is not a problem, per se; but the presentation of that
> complexity can be, and usually is. I just think Emacs in general and
> Gnus in particular needs some work in that regard.
I think Emacs is pretty good in that regard, but it could be improved
(and has been improved, in fits and starts over the years).
I cannot speak to or for Gnus. My impression from hearsay accords
with what you say.
> But managing to understand that complexity is clearly not insurmountable
> by somebody willing to put forth the effort: I'm posting this using
> Gnus, and it's not like I'm some kind of uber-technical user. Heck, I
> work in HR.
>
> Anyway, that's my $0.02.
Thanks for it.
> [1] Incidentally, I appear to have discovered what might be a very minor
> bug in 24.3, as well; when you select a file to encrypt but gpg is
> not installed, you get a "permission denied" error, not a more
> accurate "file not found" error.
Please `M-x report-emacs-bug'. Seriously.
Re: What's an even easier explanation how to setup gnus ..., Carson Chittom, 2013/08/13
Message not availableRe: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...], Stefan Monnier, 2013/08/14
RE: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...], Drew Adams, 2013/08/14
Re: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...], Rustom Mody, 2013/08/14
Re: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...], Ken Goldman, 2013/08/16
Message not availableRe: configurable means hard? [was: ... easier explanation how to setup gnus ...], Rustom Mody, 2013/08/17
Message not available
Re: What's an even easier explanation how to setup gnus ..., W. Greenhouse, 2013/08/13