Re: Reply to list [was: Different key maps in different dired buffers]

[Emanuel Berg]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> Sites like Gmane and Nabble have forms for
> you to register with their site.

Perhaps, but Gmane isn't a web site lite any
other, it is a unique piece of technology.
It is not a thing of the web except for
archiving and distribution, which is two things
the web is good for. There is no web interface
to it that you are forced to use. The best
thing is to use Gmane with Gnus and then you
don't have to use the web at all. And you don't
have to register with forms. The first time you
send a post to a group, you get a mail to
confirm. You reply to that mail and thereafter
you just post to the group. There is no
entering of data, no codes back and forth, no
web browser. Simply put, it is brilliant!

Here - mails, RSS, Usenet, Gmane, mail, my own
project blogomatic:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/figures/gnus/gnus-group.png

> If you like you can put up a web form
> somewhere too. But those sites are not this
> mailing list. The mailing list has no
> web forms.

But many do otherwise you don't get access.

> And Gmane does a very good job of it.
> Even though I don't use them myself they are
> usually my recommendation for people who do
> want a web interface.

Take a look at my screenshot above! Does that
look like a web interface? (And whose questions
are you calling rhetorical?)

> But for *this* message here it was posted to
> the newsgroup. That came through the news to
> mail gateway. And as far as anyone who
> follows up here can see it only went to the
> mailing list. Which means that any CC
> was lost.

OK, I can start putting in a small note: also
"CC'd to Whitfield" if that makes you feel
better about it. (It can even be automatized.)

> And this doesn't even mention that your
> follow-ups to the mailing list are always
> in-reply-to the message before the message
> you are replying to and not the one it should
> be in reply to. Some breakage in postings
> coming through the newsgroup gateway.

OK? To me the threads look good so I never
thought about it.

> But looking like something and being
> something are two different things.

The challenge is to make it look and behave
like the user wants and still be accessible to
everyone else the way *they* want it!

> I hate captured web form interfaces where
> I can't use my favorite editor to craft
> my reply.

Don't hate the interface. Become the interface!
That's what I did, with a little help from my
friends...

> You are proposing that we make a compromise
> of values in order to bring in the young
> generation of Facebook users? To paraphrase
> the often quoted phrase, "Those that would
> give up some essential liberty for some
> security deserve neither."

We can't have watertight between us and the
rest of humanity, i.e. millions of educated,
creative, and active people. It is
a bad situation. Much worse than listbot vs.
Gmane vs. Usenet. However I don't have any
suggestions what to do about it as of now.

> Also the Facebook interface is designed for
> very short comments. What do you think it
> would do with our exchange here?

"Our" exchanges? I want *them* to be *us*!

> I would oppose an FB to mailing list gateway
> as being generally incompatible.

There is nothing incompatible in computer
technology. It is all Os and 1s. Because of
politics, sadly it might never happen with FB.
In terms of technology it is very possible.

> Gmane handles the mailing lists fine because
> it is a web mail interface. But newsgroup
> readers cannot because they are using the
> newsgroup which is gateway'd to the mailing
> list and there are concepts that do not
> transfer across them. ... Gmane is an email
> archive and web mail interface. A good one.
> You appear to disagree. In what way does
> Gmane not meet your definition of a web
> interface to the mailing list?

Perhaps it is easier if you think of Gmane in
combination with Gnus, which is indeed
a newsreader - and not just any but the best.
Gmane/Gnus is a way to organize and take part
in communication. It is Usenet Reloaded!

-- 
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
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