Re: Issue 3174: Implement \accidental markup and \pitched command for transposable accidental markups (issue 7323060)

[David Kastrup]

ArnoldTheresius <address@hidden> writes:

> Thomas Morley wrote
>> On 2013/02/14 09:21:07, dak wrote:
>> 
>>> So the message is "we can do", but we still need to figure out _what_
>>> we can do.  Proposals?
>> 
>> Well, currently I don't have a good idea.
>> 
>> Though, some time ago Arnold posted his approach on -user:
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2012-06/msg00278.html
>> direct link to his code:
>> http://old.nabble.com/file/p33991423/pitchedArticulations.ly
>> 
>> Perhaps this might be useful, I hadn't a closer look, though.
>> 
>> https://codereview.appspot.com/7323060/
>
> I'll try to collect the information:
>
> The 'pitched articulation' is:
> - add the accidental of a pitch above the articulation symbol
>  and or
> - ... below the articulation symbol

Not really.  "Pitched" articulations don't just concern an accidental
(see pitched trills in the manual), but the case we are concerned about
right here are accidentals stacked with an articulation.

> This (these) pitch(es) may be defined by:
> - entering the pitch
> - specifying the interval from the ornamented note (notehead)

We don't specify intervals elsewhere in LilyPond.  There is not even a
useful entry form for that.

> most common usage is: a minor or major second above or below a single
> tone, not assigned to a chord.

I don't really think anybody thinks about ornamentations with respect to
their "intervals" but rather with respect to the current scale.  That
might be different with atonal music, but I don't think embellishments
belong in there.

> only "delayed turn / reverseturn" is usually placed on a skip, where
> no pitch is available to apply the interval.

Maybe.

> Formatting:
> - the accidental is usually some smaller in size than the articulation is.
> - Mostly (prall, mordent, turn, reverseturn) the accidentals are
> horizontally centered, vertically as close as the extent allows.
> - for the trill two positions are suitable:
>   - horizontally right aligned, vertically the accidental close above the
> 'r' of the 'tr', thus overlapping into the 'tr' symbol extent
>   - horizontally appended to the right of the 'tr' symbol, the accidental is
> raised by some value
> The best method for this combining of the glyphs seem to be done by a
> stencil function.

Probably.  And arguably the default stencil function should be able to
do that.

> Additional:
> - It may be required in some situation to put some parentheses (or
> brackets to indicate an editorial note) around the added accidentals.

Maybe.

> Syntax for the user to enter:
> - commands like \majorPrall, \minorPrall, \majorMordent,
> \majorMinorTurn, \minorNeutralReverseturn (which define the offset
> interval) seem (to me) to be the most simple way to specify those
> pitched articulations, whenever they are aligned to exactly one note.

I consider them quite inappropriate.  For one thing, they are unnatural.
If I typeset a c\major scale with trills, I don't want to remember which
steps of the scale are whole and which are half notes.  For another,
intervals don't lead to enharmonic unambigous notes.

> - In other situations (e.g. delayed turn, quarter tone trill) it may
> be the best to enter the pitch(es) manually. One possible style might
> be '\pitchedArticulation [pitch-up] [pitch-down] [articulation
> symbol]', where pitch-up and pitch-down may also be the locial value
> 'false' to indicate 'no articulation to put here'.

That does not match LilyPond's typical input patterns.  I'd use
something like \pitched and \underpitched here (\submarinePitched being
a bit too long).  Just use what is needed.  A double accidental is worth
the double trouble entry.

-- 
David Kastrup