Re: Problems with polyphony (rests, dynamics, lyrics, tempo)

[Mats Bengtsson]

Many questions in the same email!



Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:

> Hi Mats,
> Thanks a lot for your help. I've now managed to create two songs without 
> problems, but for two other pieces I have deeper needs and I'm still running 
> into problems that I haven't yet been able to solve.
>
> Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2005 11:30 schrieben Sie:
>  
>
> > If you add
> > the following two lines to the end of your GlobalSettings, the rests
> > will be merged, even though you'll get some warning printouts.
> > GlobalSettings = {
> >         ...
> > \revert Rest #'direction
> > \revert MultiMeasureRest #'staff-position
> > }
> >    
>
> It seems to work fine (is there any way to suppress these warnings?). But 
> there is one big problem: If you have a dotted rest (e.g. r8.), the rests 
> will still be combined, but the dots are not. So the r8. rest will have two 
> dots. See
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.pdf
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.ly
>
>  
The \voiceOne and \voiceTwo settings also set different prefered 
directions for the
dots, so try to add also

\revert Dots #'direction
and/or
\revert DotColumn #'direction


>  
>
> > > 2) Since I also need the midi file, and possibly generate separate scores
> > > for each voice, I have to add the dynamics to every voice. However, then
> > > the piano, crescendo signs etc. appear twice, overwriting some notes (see
> > > SchoenbrunnDuMeinTraum.ly). How can I make lilypond print out these
> > > dynamics only once (for the staff instead of separately for each voice),
> > > while the midi will still apply them to both voices in the staff?
> > >      
> > The ideas described in
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2005-03/msg00063.html
> > should work here as well.
> >    
>
> Okay, so I generated the dynamics separated from the actual notes.  Now the 
> problem is that the p, the fermatas, the crescendi, etc. are drawn 
> immediately above the staff, even if the collide with a note!
>
> An example of this problem can be seen in measure 4 of:
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.ly
>  
The trick is to include the dynamics in the same Voice context as the 
music, i.e. to add it in

\context Voice = sopranos { \voiceOne << \dynamik \GlobalSettings \sopMusic >> }


> > One way to handle the different
> > number of lyrics lines is described in the manual for version 2.5 at
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Other-voca
> > l-issues.html#Other-vocal-issues
> >    
>
> I tried it in that file ImKrapfenwaldl (measure 21, where the soprano, tenor 
> and bass have "klim-p're mit den Gro-schen", while the alto has lyrics 
> "klim-p're mit den letz-ten Gro-schen"). It doesn't seem to work, the error 
> message is that the sopranoGroschen voice cannot be found or created. What am 
> i doing wrong here?
>
>  
I don't have access to a LilyPond installation for the moment, so I 
can't try, but your
input file looks OK at a first glance. You normally get warnings about a 
missing voice
if you use \lyricsto with a Voice context that doesn't start from bar 
1,  but it should
work anyway.

> Other problems I have with that piece:
>
> -) The spacing of the notes is very uneven (caused by diffferent lengths of 
> the lyrics). See e.g. measure 46, which contains 4 eigth-notes, which are 
> spaced very uneven. 
>
>  
If you can show some examples of well-engraved scores where this 
situation is
handled differently, I'm sure that the main hackers of LilyPond are 
interested.
They are very keen to provide as good layout as possible.

> -) The whole piece is space too narrow for my taste. Is there any way to 
> increase the horizontal spacing of the whole document.
>  
See the previous answer. However, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Horizontal-spacing.html#Horizontal-spacing

> -) the dot of dotted notes is too far away from the note and too near to the 
> next note. See e.g. measure 67 of ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
>
>  
That looks very strange. I recommend you to send a bug report to 
address@hidden

> -) What is the correct way to type-set a piece with a main part, a trio, a da 
> capo and a final coda? In particular, I need line breaks exactly where the 
> trio and the coda begins, and I also need the correct repetitions in the midi 
> file.
>
>  
There's no right or wrong. Use \break to get line breaks. For the 
moment, there's no
builtin support to handle "da capo". For the MIDI version, you can 
always make a
separate \score{...} for the MIDI output or use the \tag feature.

> -) The way described in 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Rehearsal-marks.html#Rehearsal-marks
> to put a coda (or fermata) sign above a bar line doesn't work for me. The bar 
> line after measure 55 should have a fermata sign (as specified in the 
> tempos). (Actually I want a coda there, but since the example given in the 
> docu doesn't work, I didn't try to find the coda sign.)
>  
Should work, can't provide more input without access to a running LilyPond.

> -) How can I make a line break inside a measure. In particular, in measure 56 
> the Trio begins inside the staff. How can I for a page break before the r8 
> break?
>
>  
LilyPond will only consider breaking lines at bar lines. If you want a 
line break in the
middle of a measure, insert an invisible bar line: \bar ""

> -) In measures 78 and 82, is there any way I can add an underscore until the 
> end of the measure (similar to a melisma, only that there is only one note in 
> that measure).
>
>  
Maybe someone else knows.

> -) The whole measure rests in the last system are not centered inside the 
> measure (measures 109-111 and 115.
>
>  
Use R2 instead of r2. In general, always use R for full measure rests, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Rests.html#Rests

> -) The fermatas on the rests in the last system are not drawn above the rests. 
> What am I doing wrong here?
>
>  
Moving your \dynamik into the corresponding Voice context should 
hopefully solve
also these problems.

> The same problems (spacing much too tight for easy reading, whole measure 
> rests not centered, main/trio/D.C./coda structure, coda sign on the staff) 
> also appear in 
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratsch.pdf
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratsch.ly
>
> -) The additional problem I have there is then the key changes from a to e 
> (three sharps to four sharps), one would usually just write four sharp signs 
> for the new key. But lilypond first completely cancels the a key (three 
> natural signs), only to add four sharp signs immediately afterwards. See line 
> 19 of TritschTratsch.pdf. How can I prevent this and force lilypond to skip 
> the natural signs.
>
>  
Search the mailing list archives or look through the list of properties 
for the
Key_engraver at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond-internals/Key_005fengraver.html#Key_005fengraver

> -) In TritschTratsch.ly there is not one voice where I can assign the lyrics, 
> because every now and then only one voice keeps singing, all others are 
> quiet. So I tried the trick to change the associated voice with 
> \set associatedVoice = basses
> But that doesn't work at all. If I uncomment all these lines in the lyrics, no 
> lyrics are printed at all after the first \set associatedVoice. For an 
> example see:
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratschAssociatedVoice.pdf
> http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratschAssociatedVoice.ly
>
>  
I hope someone else can answer this one as well.


  /Mats

> Thanks a lot for all your help.
>
> Cheers,
> Reinhold
>
>
>  
>
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