Re: Help getting started with Danny Boy

[James E. Bailey]

Am 04.05.2008 um 05:59 schrieb Paul Scott:

On May 3, 2008, at 6:44 PM, plasmacarwash wrote:

Dear James,

Actually I was wondering, once we set the time signature and choose which

value our notes will be (half, quart, eighth) -does the program

automatically create the desired bars?

The appropriate measures?

I assume it does after that input.

Have you read the tutorial?

We can help you better if you show us what you have tried.

I'm sorry, if this is rude, but this is a real pet peeve of mine. Rather than saying, "Oh, okay, try in section 1.2.1.1 of the lilypond documentation or section 2 of the learning manual" people, especially in GNU or open software, simply reply with "RTFM".

Okay, I started with lilypond version 2.6 and let me tell you all something, lilypond was the first open-source program that I as an end-user dealt with. The documentation was very confusing, I didn't read it every day, and even when I did read it, I didn't understand it.

An answer like, "have you read the tutorial" implies that the person questioning hasn't read the tutorial. I'll tell you all a little secret, I've never read the tutorial. It's far too complicated. I'm not a computer programmer, I'm a composer. I don't understand scheme functions, I don't want to understand scheme functions, I just want an easy way to typeset music that isn't as frustrating as finale and doesn't require such bloated software. I understand that the documentation attempts to cover the questions people would have about how to use the program, and that the getting started and first steps are designed (and do a pretty good job of) getting new users started and showing them the first steps, but the documentation is kind of daunting, and finding information in it is sometimes overwhelming. Especially when you, as a new user of open-source software are thinking, "this is a pretty easy and straightforward question, I've used documentation before, why can't I find the answer to my question?"

If you read his questions, you can see that he's probably started reading the manual, but hasn't actually typeset any music. It looks to me like he's just wondering how things work. Regardless, "have you read the tutorial" without specific reference to where in the tutorial he should read is a pretty daunting task. I think of it like if somewhere were to ask, "what's that bit about loving your neighbor? Does that just mean the person who lives next door to me?" and the answer is, "well, have you read the bible?" The two are pretty similar. He does a great job of asking specific questions, and "have you read the tutorial" is about as bad an answer as the question "how does the program work?" Those kinds of questions are non-specific and don't help anyone.

Just to let you know, I tried using lilypond at versioin 2.6, but I couldn't because the documentation was completely confusing and people who understood the program were unwilling to help me. This was my very first question to this user list:

On 26-Dec-05, at 4:16 PM, address@hidden wrote:

Hello, I'm very new to this and trying to figure out how to get output. I can modify the file I find online and get output, but somehow I'm missing some information to correctly parse a file. I'm trying to find some help in the documentation (both online and in the pdf) and cannot understand what I need to get output.
Here's what I have:
{ /clef treble
\time 2/4
r8 <<d'8 fis'8 g'8>> r8 <<c'8 es'8 as'8>> r8 <<d'8 fis'8 g'8>> r8 <<e'8 f'8 c""8>>

}

\version "2.6.0"  % necessary for upgrading to future LilyPond versions.

I figured out that I need that last line, but other than that, I don't understand anything.

Have you read the tutorial? Lilypond is not the kind of program you can use in five or ten minutes; please read the tutorial carefully, and follow the steps.

- Graham

(sorry, graham)

I thought I said clearly that I a) was looking for help in the documentation, both online and pdf, and b) didn't understand something. Rather than providing a response that encourages me to continue looking in the documentation, and looking for ways to find answers to my solutions, pointing out to me the errors, the response is just "RTFM". And, I even went so far as to post my exact file.  I got two similar "read the tutorial responses". I was so angry, I thought, "I AM reading the tutorial, I just don't understand it. Can somebody please explain to me what I don't understand from the tutorial?" 

This response was all I needed:

> Hello new user, I hope you don't give up.
> We all tend to make mistakes in typing and this was your case:
> Please replace /clef with \clef. Then replace c""8 with c''8 (notice that
> it's TWO single quotes: ' and ' not ONE ".
> Cheers,
>
> Eduardo Vieira
>
> P. S. Go deeper in studying the manual.

There's a difference there. It answers the question. Very specifically. Suddenly I learn that lilypond is very specific when it comes to these things, I learned that there is a difference between a forward slash and a back slash, a distinction I had never had to make before.

The point is, how to ask a question really helped me, and how to answer a question was even more helpful. I learned a little insight into the people who were probably answering my questions. Like I said, it's a personal peeve, it's not limited to lilypond, but lilypond was a music typesetting program, and that mattered to me, and when I first tried lilypond, I was really upset at those first answers I got. Just remember that when you say, "have you read the documentation?" that you're talking about a 400-page book, and while the answer may there, finding and interpreting it are the difficult parts, and more often than not, the person asking the question is looking at the documentation and just needs help finding and interpreting the answers that are there.

</rant>