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Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties


From: Trevor Daniels
Subject: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:55:54 +0100


More complicated shapes would normally be implemented as
two cubic Bézier curves spliced together.  This would work
quite well for the shape you want.  Here's a lash-up using
three spacer notes in parallel to carry two slurs, just to show
what could be achieved (this is hardly a practical technique
for real music, although if there are only one or two such
slurs and it is important enough, maybe it could serve.)
The 8 values are to be determined by trial and error.

\relative c' {
 <<
   { e4 e }
   {
     \override Slur #'control-points =
       #'((0.75 . -3.5) (1.75 . -5) (2.75 . -3.5) (2.0 . -3.5))
     s8(
     \override Slur #'control-points =
       #'((-1.0 . -3.5) (-1.75 . -3.5) (-0.75 . -5) (0.25 . -3.5))
     s)( s)
   }
 >>
}

The algorithm to work out 8 possible control points would not
be too difficult, and the routines to draw Bézier curves are
already available in LilyPond, but I don't know how difficult it
would be to select an optimum curve given the surrounding
environment.  In any case this would need to be done by one
of the code writers (I'm not one), so that's as far as I can take
it, I'm afraid.  I've only pursued it this far because I shall
shortly be documenting Bézier curves and their control-points
and I needed to understand them better.  Thanks for the
incentive :)

Trevor

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pounder" <address@hidden>
To: "Trevor Daniels" <address@hidden>
Cc: <address@hidden>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties


Thanks for the response, but as you say, the overall shape of the tie gets lost with the loop.

Would this be horrendous to implement as a new feature, and if it is feasible, how would I go about sponsoring?

David.

------- Original Message -------
From: "Trevor Daniels" <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden, address@hidden
Sent: 1.8.08, 18:59:54
Subject: Re: Loop-the-Loop Ties

You -can- make a cubic Bézier "loop-the-loop" by crossing over the two
intermediate points, but then there is not enough control left to achieve
a nice downward shape on the two halves.  Also you would need to tune
every such slur manually, which is quite tedious.

Here's an example which shows what might be achieved:

\relative {
 \override Slur #'control-points =
   #'((1 . -3.5) (6 . -2) (-1 . -2) (4 . -3.5))
 e( e)
}

Trevor


----- Original Message ----- From: <address@hidden>
To: <address@hidden>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:23 AM
Subject: Loop-the-Loop Ties


Good morning list.

Apologies for the cryptic subject header, but what I need to do is
difficult to express in words.

In short, I need to show two notes tied, where the tie forms a circle
in the middle, performing a 'loop the loop' before ending at the second
note. I realise that this probably makes no sense whatsoever, but such
a tie can be seen in bar 4 and also in the final bar of the following
link:  http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/collectiondisplay.php?
pageNum_collection=4&totalRows_collection=13&Record_Type=EC&title=The%
20Elgin%20Collection&link=other.shtml%23ec

This mark itself is fairly common in Scottish fiddle music and is used
to indicate that the notes, though tied, should be emphasized
separately by the bow, so that the two notes can be heard separately by
the listener.

I am not a great expert on bezier curves and was wondering if it is
possible to use 'control-points' to do this, or would it have to be a
new feature request?

Would be grateful for any help, as I don't know of any other way to
represent this bowing.

- David



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