Re: roman numerals

[Kevin Patrick Barry]

Thank you for the updated code; I can put an accidental in front of
the numeral now just fine, but I can't seem to put one next to any of
the numerals, or on its own (for altering the third above the bass).
I tried various combinations of the following and the output either
gave errors or printed the letters 's,' 'f,' or 'n' instead of the
relevant accidentals:

\markup \rN { sIV  f7 s5 }
or
\markup \rN { sIV  7f 5s }
or
\markup \rN { sIV  f 7 5 s }
or even \rN { V n } seems to not work.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the syntax?  I am also a theory teacher
and the time saved would be very helpful!

I agree about the problems with lyrics and with figured bass.
LilyPond has quite nice figured bass (with options for stroked figures
and everything like that) so it would be nice if one were able to
place figured bass columns next to roman numerals somehow, but it
doesn't sound straightforward...

As an aside; I have a problem with figured bass whenever I need to
indicate suspensions (like a 4-3 suspension, or a 9-8), which are
generally indicated with extender lines from a figure under one note
to a figure under another.  It is possible to 'trick' LilyPond into
drawing extender lines by adding extra figures in between to create
the lines, but then the spacing is usually ruined, and the extender
lines stop far short of where I would like.  But this is a requirement
of music theory/analysis and not performance, so I have just assumed I
will never see it.  I mention it just on the off chance that you also
have a clever solution for it :)

Kevin

On 21 November 2012 12:36, David Nalesnik <address@hidden> wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Kevin Patrick Barry <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 11:04:48 +0100
>>> From: David Kastrup <address@hidden>
>>> To: address@hidden
>>> Subject: Re: roman numerals
>>> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain
>>>
>>> Michael Rivers <address@hidden> writes:
>>>
>>>> Sweet! Thank you so much for that code, and thank you to whoever wrote it.
>>>> Open source is amazing.
>>>
>>> "Dunno who I stole this from" does not meet the licensing criteria for
>>> either Open Source or Free Software.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Kastrup
>>
>> I hope you're joking!
>>
>> I also used that code for a while (I think David Nalesnik wrote it, or
>> at least updated it at some point?),
>
> Yup, I wrote it way back when.  I've since improved it a bit, and I
> need to upload these changes to the LSR (which Mike S. is quoting
> above) when I get it all finalized.  Ultimately, I'd like to see this
> kind of support in the codebase.  As a theory teacher, I have used
> this function many many times.  One of my long-term goals has been to
> work on this project--to take this from a snippet, and make a viable
> part of the program.  The big issue to resolve (other than the best
> way to parse the user input) is how this all would interact with
> LilyPond's figured-bass capabilities.
>
>> but it has a few limitations that
>> break it for me, namely that I can't put an accidental in front of the
>> Roman numeral (although it suggests I should be able to do this),
>
> You can do this no problem.  Just write:
>
> \markup \rN { fII 6 }
>
> or
>
> \markup \rN { fA 6 }
>
> Possibly you're using an older version?  (I know several versions are
> out there,)
>
> The version for which this certainly works is available here:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/address@hidden/msg69861/rN.ly
>
>
>> and
>> that it is limited to two figures per numeral (I frequently need
>> three, sometimes more).
>
> Three or more figures aren't a problem.  I've got that
> working--somewhere.  As soon as I get this all together, I'll update
> that snippet on the LSR.
>
>>
>> It is possible to do Roman numerals using only markup commands.  I
>> don't get them to look as good as the rN code, but the results are
>> more flexible.  Here's a deliberately convoluted example (in case
>> anyone else has similar needs to my own):
>>
>
> Yes, the \rN command is simply an aid to creating a complex markup,
> which is immensely tedious if you churn this sort of analysis out and
> want the symbols to look like they do in the theory texts.
>
>
>> I find the alignment under notes is best when the numerals are in a
>> lyrics context, but ordinary markup above or below works well enough
>> also.
>>
>
> This brings up another struggling point.  There are slight differences
> in the appearances of the markups depending on whether you use them
> inside or outside a Lyrics context.  Possibly I'm splitting hairs
> here, but I'd like to resolve this.
>
> HTH,
> David
>