Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

[Joseph Rushton Wakeling]

On 01/28/2013 11:54 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote:
> Me too, but having individual control satifies everyone.

Agreed. :-)

> The big challenge will be to find some optimum which satifies the multitude of
> brands and models. I've played on two brands, three models and these were all
> different, I checked the documentation as I have it. May be one of the options
> should be a "disappear" key version, like the possibilities to have a ring or
> show 3 quarters, one option could be to let a key out completely.

Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than certain keys being present or 
not.  In fact you face at least 2 different problems: different models have 
different key arrangements, and in addition different models may have the same 
physical key layout but with different notes associated with a particular key.

For example, as I recall, Selmer bass clarinets used to have the right-hand 
little finger low Eb on the _upper_ rank of keys, with a low C#/Db on the lower 
rank.  Buffet have traditionally had it the opposite way round.

Then there's the left-hand little finger low note key which is often added to 
bass clarinets -- it can be a D or a Db.

Meanwhile, the thumb key arrangement probably varies more than anything -- one, 
two, three, four?  And what plays what?

Bear in mind that this is not limited to bass clarinet -- there are basset 
clarinets, basset horns and contra-alto/contrabass clarinets to take into 
account as well.  And in all these cases, players may well modify the fingering 
setup of their instruments to suit their personal preferences and needs.

And that's before we even begin to get into the issue of French vs. German 
system ... :-)

> I ran through the whole set of keys for the "low-bass-clarinet" and saw yet some
> more problems (I only did the completly closed variations, not everything :-),
> see attachments. The diagrams:
>
> 1. All keys (by specifying nothing)
> 2. All keys and holes closed
> 3. One hole closed, the diagram changes. My wish is to have control here.
> 4. The right-hand low-d key (with the right thumb), is available according to
> the list, but nothing shows up. Bug!
> 5. The left-hand low-d key (with the left thumb), is available according to the
> list, but nothing shows up. Bug!

I think you mean the left little finger, not thumb?  In any case, note that it 
may be a D or a Db, or possibly even a C.

> 6. Lot's of models have a right-hand low-ees key (with the thumb), There is no
> such key. Wishlist.

Not recent French models, in my experience, but I agree it's often found.  The 
trouble is its placement is not uniform.

> 7. Every model I know has a low-gis key for the left-hand little-finger. It is
> missing, probably that one should be in and inherited from the basic clarinet
> diagram. Wishlist.

Yes, although to be honest the circumstances where you'd want to mandate use of 
_that particular_ G# key are probably vanishingly small.

> 8. and 9. These keys are positioned much lower, opposite to the central-column
> holes four and five, i.m.h.o. should be moved, at least below rh one through
> four, probably also a little to the side. Wishlist.

I think there's plenty of improvement that can be made to the general appearance 
of the diagram.  My personal annoyance is the way in which the upper and lower 
ranks of the right-hand little finger keys are portrayed as being strongly 
vertically offset relative to each other.

> I'm aware this is a lot to ask. I will dive into the Scheme myself, just to see
> how hard it is. But if someone is enthousiast and knows how it really works,
> that would be very great. (I didn't address/contact the original programmer
> right away, because he probably is busy on other things which I don't want to
> disturb.) I'm at least going to run a set with all 1q, 3q, etc. variations also
> to see what happens there. I hope to do that in the coming week(s).

I think that what would be most helpful is to be able to provide a clear spec 
for how things should work, and then in principle anyone -- you, I (although I'm 
not much of a Schemer), another developer -- can implement that spec.

Now, on that note.

My personal opinion as a clarinettist is that fingering diagrams that represent 
the physical key layout in practice make sense only for the regular clarinet 
(and maybe also its full-Boehm brother with the right-hand little finger low Eb, 
which you find also on many alto clarinets and non-extended bass and 
contra-alto/contrabass clarinets).

When you come to extended clarinets, such as the basset clarinet, basset horn, 
or the low-C bass, contra-alto and contrabass clarinets, there is simply too 
much variety for a physical diagram to be useful.  In this case the only 
_reliable_ notation is to indicate keys via name.

So, the short-term goal in my opinion should be to fix the non-graphical 
fingering diagrams for clarinets.  Where extended-range clarinets are concerned, 
the simplest way to do that is to consider all the extended-range notes (Eb, D, 
Db, C) as right-hand thumb keys.   So, your notation would be something like:
                                o  o
                                   o
                                   o
                         -------|  -
                          Eb  D |  o
                          Db  C |  o
                                   o

i.e. to have a side-box for the "thumb keys".  Actually, the box would only 
contain one key name at a time, e.g.:

                                o  o
                                   o
                                   o
                             ---|  -
                              D |  o
                                   o
                                   o

(Excuse the bad ASCII-art, but I think you get the idea:-)

Of course, in reality most instruments would not have these notes as (just) 
thumb keys, but it's easy for the player to adapt from that notation to the 
peculiarities of their own instrument.  You might want to allow the low Eb as a 
right-hand little finger key as well as a thumb key, but on the other hand this 
might cause confusion with the G# key.

With this design you can then limit your (Boehm-system) clarinet diagrams to 
just two -- clarinet and clarinet-extended -- which ought to cover the whole 
clarinet family.

By the way, as you're Dutch, perhaps you can confirm for me: does the actual key 
layout of reform-Boehm differ in any meaningful way from regular Boehm layout? 
Or is it just the linking and the way in which keys affect which holes open/close?