Re: Henle piano template

[Urs Liska]

Am 29.07.2013 22:20, schrieb PMA:
> Urs Liska wrote:
> > Am 29.07.2013 20:04, schrieb PMA:
> > > Urs Liska wrote:
> > > > No, these don't, but I think that fingerings in itself _do_ belong in
> > > > there, and if the original ones from Henle are copyrighted ...
> > > It seems to me that the only fingerings
> > > properly belonging in an Urtext ed
> > > are those of the composer. If he / she
> > > supplied none, then _none_.
> > But I think what we are aiming at here is a reproduction of a given
> > score/edition, in the current case Henle's Edition of Beethoven op. 
> > 10/3.
> > Whether an Urtext edition should or should not contain editorial
> > fingerings - or whatever editorial decisions you might to name - isn't
> > the question at hand. This is a complex issue which would probably have
> > been answered quite differently if you ask it 1950, 1980 or today. I
> > really vote for working towards the 'style', at least at the moment.
> > And for that the fingering style of Henle's edition should be part of
> > the challenge, especially as good engraving of fingerings isn't trivial.
> >
> > Urs
>
> True, the question at hand had not invited my remark.
> It had, tho, stirred up my old impression that Henle's
> use of "fingerings by..." reduces their "Urtext" claim to
> falsehood. 
"Urtext" is a fiction anyway in 95% of the cases. What would you 
consider "Urtext" when you have a manuscript, a fair copy, an original 
edition controlled by the composer, a personal copy of the OE with 
corrections, and another, later manuscript with other readings than the 
OE or the corrected copy?
Or (as is often the case with Chopin for example) if you have an 
original edition and several copies of that edition with different 
additions by the composer (for example embellishments for different pupils)?

I think there can't be such a thing like a perfect edition. But an 
edition should strive as hard as possible to account for how the printed 
score relates to the (different) sources. "Critical edition" is probably 
a much more honest term to what one can achieve.
And in such a context fingerings don't compromise the claim at all - if 
it is clear which fingerings are authentic and which aren't.

> Perhaps I'd have interpreted the term less
> strictly, had I not as a pianist counted on blank space
> to scribble in _my_ fingerings.
That's true. I have more and more got used to not write any fingerings 
at all (I usually find them simply distracting). And the less fingerings 
the editors printed the less black spots I have to 'mute' mentally. When 
I pick a copy from the time with my first piano teacher I'm usually 
shocked: He let me copy his fingerings, and that means that in 
complicated passages I have fingerings attached to nearly all notes! I 
really can't play from these scores anymore. I was quite surprised when 
I had a Bach score at the piano that I found it quite difficult, but 
after erasing all the pencil fingerings I could practically play it from 
sight again.
> PA