Re:aleatoric box / frameEngraver

[Mazzafrustu]

Hi all,
is it possible to use the frame Engraver in a cross-staff situation,
like piano or (like in my situation) marimba?
I wrote the marimba part using the \change Staff lines.

Thank You so much.
Giuseppe Silvi

On 29/lug/2013, at 20:53, address@hidden wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:shiftDuration and partial (David Kastrup)
>   2. letterspacing control (Kieren MacMillan)
>   3. Re:aleatoric box / frameEngraver (David Nalesnik)
>   4. Re:letterspacing control (David Nalesnik)
>   5. Re:Henle piano template (PMA)
>   6. Re:Henle piano template (Kieren MacMillan)
>   7. Re:Henle piano template (Urs Liska)
>   8. Re:Henle piano template (Kieren MacMillan)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:07:17 +0200
> From: David Kastrup <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: shiftDuration and partial
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> Urs Liska <address@hidden> writes:
> 
>> Am 29.07.2013 17:26, schrieb Stjepan Horvat:
>>> hi guys..di you realize that shiftDuration doesn't convert the partial
>>> part..?!
>>> is this a bug?
>>> 
>>> for example:
>>> 
>>> \shiftDuration #1 #0 { c4 d e f } -> c8 d e f
>>> but \shiftDuration #1 #0 { \partial 4 c4 d e f } -> c8 d | f g
>>> 
>> I'm not sure, but I think that \partial 4 isn't technically a duration
>> such as c4 or r4.
>> If that's right it wouldn't be a but but a limitation.
> 
> It is technically a duration, but it is stored in a "partial-duration"
> music property instead of a "duration" property and thus is not affected
> by scaling.
> 
> Which seems somewhat weird.  But it's been this way always since the
> PartialSet event has been created in
> 
> commit 743267e6df7253daa9eded70c6c2736902111511
> Author: Neil Puttock <address@hidden>
> Date:   Sun Sep 26 00:43:29 2010 +0100
> 
>    Fix #372.
> 
>    Thanks to Carl for providing the inspiration for this patch.
> 
>    * input/regression/auto-beam-partial-grace.ly:
> 
>      new regtest
> 
>    * input/regression/display-lily-tests.ly:
> 
>      remove TODO for scaled duration \partial test
> 
>    * lily/partial-iterator.cc (new file):
> 
>      use a simple music iterator to calculate the correct measurePosition
>      setting, and warn for \partial used after the start of a score
> 
>    * scm/define-music-display-methods.scm:
> 
>      simplify display method for partial: since the new music object 
> `PartialSe
>      carries the original duration from the parser, extra code for converting
>      moments to durations is no longer required
> 
>    * scm/define-music-properties.scm (all-music-properties):
> 
>      add property for \partial, partial-duration
> 
>    * scm/define-music-types.scm (music-descriptions):
> 
>      add PartialSet
> 
>    * scm/ly-syntax-constructors.scm (partial):
> 
>      change constructor to allow 'origin to be set directly (used by iterator
>      to signal warning message)
> 
>      use PartialSet
> 
> 
> I think it could reasonably safe be replaced with just "duration" (and
> thus would transform under shiftDurations), but the usefulness is likely
> somewhat limited since \partial may only be used at the beginning of a
> piece for some reason.
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 13:39:28 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
> To: Lilypond-User Mailing List <address@hidden>
> Subject: letterspacing control
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Is there a letterspacing parameter I can adjust?
> A search of the archives turned up only questions (and old ones at that).
> 
> In my Beethoven template, for example, I'm hacking it like this:
> 
>    title = \markup \override #'(word-space . 1) \line { S O N A T E }
> 
> But I'd much rather have direct control of the letterspacing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:41:01 -0500
> From: David Nalesnik <address@hidden>
> To: Karol Majewski <address@hidden>
> Cc: Thomas Morley <address@hidden>,   lilypond-user
>       <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: aleatoric box / frameEngraver
> Message-ID:
>       <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Karol,
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Karol Majewski <address@hidden> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> OK, so have repeat signs in \markup \Score. Now I need the extender. How
>> can I modify David's function to start the extender without frame? For
>> example:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> c'4 \extenderStart s4*2 \extenderStop
>> 
> Again, I think the best course of action here is not to omit the frame;
> rather, you would replace the frame with repeat-bar stencils.
> 
> The problem that I'm facing is that I can't find a convenient function in
> the barline interface to produce a barline stencil.  It's possible to quote
> massive portions of scm\bar-line.scm in the .ly file and then make some
> adaptations to the print function for Frame and the width function for
> FrameStub (see the latest version of the file at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/address@hidden/msg83197/frameEngraver25.ly).
> That works, but it's just too awful.
> 
> -David
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:56:43 -0500
> From: David Nalesnik <address@hidden>
> To: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
> Cc: Lilypond-User Mailing List <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: letterspacing control
> Message-ID:
>       <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Kieren,
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
> address@hidden> wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> Is there a letterspacing parameter I can adjust?
>> A search of the archives turned up only questions (and old ones at that).
>> 
>> In my Beethoven template, for example, I'm hacking it like this:
>> 
>>    title = \markup \override #'(word-space . 1) \line { S O N A T E }
>> 
>> But I'd much rather have direct control of the letterspacing.
>> 
>> 
> I believe you'll find something int the following thread which could help
> you do this:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/address@hidden/msg47691.html
> 
> --David
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:04:34 -0400
> From: PMA <address@hidden>
> To: Urs Liska <address@hidden>
> Cc: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: Henle piano template
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Urs Liska wrote:
>> No, these don't, but I think that fingerings in itself _do_ belong in there, 
>> and if the original ones from Henle are copyrighted ...
> It seems to me that the only fingerings
> properly belonging in an Urtext edition
> are those of the composer.  If he / she
> supplied none, then _none_.
> 
> PA
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:04:52 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
> To: PMA <address@hidden>
> Cc: Urs Liska <address@hidden>, address@hidden
> Subject: Re: Henle piano template
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
>> It seems to me that the only fingerings properly belonging in an Urtext 
>> edition
>> are those of the composer.  If he / she supplied none, then _none_.
> 
> Agreed.
> The Henle Preface states that Beethoven's fingering is indicated in italics ? 
> I can (and will) include those in the Beethoven_Op10No3_notes.ily file, and 
> other fingerings in their appropriate "edition tweaks" file(s).
> 
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 20:30:32 +0200
> From: Urs Liska <address@hidden>
> To: lilypond-user Mailinglist <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Henle piano template
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Hi  Kieren,
> 
> unfortunately I don't understand everything completely:
> 
> Am 29.07.2013 16:07, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
>> Hi Urs,
>> 
>>> No, these don't, but I think that fingerings in itself _do_ belong in 
>>> there, and if the original ones from Henle are copyrighted ...
>> This is my vision.
>> 
>> 1. Each of the following hierarchically inherits from (i.e., includes) the 
>> one above:
>> 
>>     Lilypond.ily
>>     Score.ily
>>     PianoStaff.ily
>>     Lilypond_piano_solo.ily
>>     Lilypond_piano_solo_letter.ily, Lilypond_piano_solo_A4.ily, 
>> Lilypond_piano_solo_letter_landscape.ily, ?
>> 
>> This would be the point at which the default Lilypond user would \include a 
>> "house style" (e.g., Lilypond_piano_solo_letter.ily) to engrave their basic 
>> piano solo parts.
> 
> LGTM.
>> Then we'd have
>> 
>>     Henle_piano_concert.ily
> 
> OK. Had to remind myself that 'concert' is a paper format...
>> or some such name. This would be in place of Lilypond_piano_solo_letter.ily 
>> (etc.), and would be included if you wanted that "Henle Beethoven urtext" 
>> look. Finally, we have
>> 
>>     Beethoven_Op10No3_manuscript.ily
>>     Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Winter19751976_editorials.ily
> 
> What exactly do you mean by 'manuscript' and 'editorials'?
> Manuscript in the sense of 'bare musical text' or literally Beethoven's
> manuscript? Or style tweaks relevant to that concrete score?
> And editorials: editorial markings or styles for that score?
>> and you'd have a file
>> 
>>     Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Winter19751976.ly
>>         \include Henle_piano_concert.ily
>>         \include Beethoven_Op10No3_manuscript.ily
>>         \include Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Winter19751976_editorials.ily
>> 
>> Yes?
>> 
>> So fingerings (which are NOT in the manuscript, as far as I know) would be 
>> included in Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Winter19751976_editorials.ily only, not 
>> the main stylesheet (Henle_piano_concert.ily).
> 
> Maybe I'm completely wrong, but _if_ I see it right, I'd strongly oppose.
> If you imagine a workflow where you separate information from the
> manuscript from later (editorial) additions that will be appropriate in
> many cases. But I'm strongly against mixing engraving and editing in
> your project.
> What you are proposing is a set of style sheets affecting the engraving,
> and this should in no way impose any way to organize the editing process.
> But maybe I'm seeing this completely wrong.
> Could you please say something more specific about how you intend these
> files? Maybe some sample entries?
>> Of course, in order to make the main stylesheet as good as possible, we need 
>> to have fingerings in there (via the \include structure I've outlined 
>> above), so that we can tweak everything accordingly. To avoid the copyright 
>> problem, I would do this (which, ultimately, is a superior structure anyway):
>> 
>>     Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Winter19751976.ly
>>         \include Henle_piano_concert.ily
>>         \include Beethoven_Op10No3_manuscript.ily
>>         \include Henle_Beethoven_Op10No3_Kieren_editorials.ily
>> 
>> Right?
> 
> Well, depends on your answers to my previous questions ;-)
> 
> Best
> Urs
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kieren.
>> _______________________________________________
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> address@hidden
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:53:40 -0400
> From: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
> To: Urs Liska <address@hidden>
> Cc: lilypond-user Mailinglist <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Henle piano template
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Hi Urs,
> 
>> What exactly do you mean by 'manuscript' and 'editorials'?
> 
> 'Manuscript' is what Beethoven himself wrote, or (by huge consensus of 
> multiple editors across multiple engraving houses) is generally understood to 
> have meant.
> 'Editorials' is what some specific editor (e.g., the Henle editor) added for 
> a specific edition: fingerings, courtesy accidentals, etc.
> 
>> Or style tweaks relevant to that concrete score?
>> And editorials: editorial markings or styles for that score?
> 
> Editorial markings (e.g., fingering not added by Beethoven) and the like 
> could be put into a file like
> 
>    Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976_editorials.ily
> 
> Plate adjustments (e.g., the specific whiteout-ing and placement of the ff in 
> m.22), etc. ? what you call "style tweaks relevant to that concrete score" ? 
> could be put directly into the main output file:
> 
>    Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976.ly
>        \include Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976_editorials.ily
> 
> or included separately still:
> 
>    Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976.ly
>        \include Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976_tweaks.ily
>        \include Beethoven_Op10No3_Henle_Winter19751976_editorials.ily
> 
>> I'm strongly against mixing engraving and editing in your project.
> 
> +1
> I'm trying to "completely" separate content from presentation (although I 
> find it extremely difficult to do well, given Lilypond's current toolkit ? I 
> know you're working on improving that!).
> 
>> What you are proposing is a set of style sheets affecting the engraving,
>> and this should in no way impose any way to organize the editing process.
> 
> Correct: the editing should happen only on the last step, after the "basic 
> Henle piano music house style" has been achieved through stylesheets.
> 
>> Could you please say something more specific about how you intend these 
>> files? Maybe some sample entries?
> 
> It will no doubt become clearer as I finalize the file set ? expect that 
> sometime later this week.
> 
> Best,
> Kieren.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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