Re: Beam positions and time signature spacing

[Janek Warchoł]

Oh my.  We (the lilypond mailing list) did it again (i.e. discussed
how we are disussing things, with no positive outcome...)

Gilberto, I'm sorry for the situation.  If you'd like to have your
questions answered, i will gladly do this, but it cannot be done via
email - we'd have to use Skype or at least real-time text chat (this
is too subtle for email).

Speaking in general, I think we should write some kind of a FAQ
explaining such issues.  Too much time (and often frustration as well)
is wasted over misunderstandings between Kastrup-like people and
Janek/Gilberto-like people.

best,
Janek

2013/11/11 Gilberto Agostinho <address@hidden>:
> David Kastrup wrote
>> Gilberto Agostinho &lt;
>
>> gilbertohasnofb@
>
>> &gt; writes:
>>> Regardless of that, I really hope I didn't gave the impression I want
>>> to force people to change certain things on LilyPond only because of
>>> what I think.
>> Why would you want them to do anything other than what you think?
>
> You seem to have a problem to grasp the difference between these two
> concepts:
> a) to force people to do something
> b) to explain your point of view, so that people might agree with you in
> order to do something
>
> What I meant is: yes, I would love that every one in this planet would agree
> with me all the time, but in case they don't, I am really not the kind of
> person who would put a gun on their faces and say "do it anyway".
>
>
> David Kastrup wrote
>>> I already exposed my thoughts, and that is all. People are invited to
>>> discuss, agree or disagree with me, and I am happy with any of
>>> those. In this particular subject, my views seem to be part of a
>>> minority here, which is totally fair.
>>
>> This characterization is _not_ fair.  What I have pointed out to you to
>> your considerable indignation is that agreeing on something, either more
>> or less or strongly, does not get the job done.
>>
>> It would be different if this list was read by a host of coders who are
>> just bored and waiting for suggestions what to do with their time.
>>
>> That is not the case.  Any task getting done needs someone postponing
>> other tasks he himself is working on or interested in.
>
> So maybe it is better if I don't propose anything any more so I don't delay
> any of the other tasks? Or should I myself measure what the developers
> consider important or not? How does this work, David?
>
>
> David Kastrup wrote
>> So by far the
>> most successful way for getting anything done is doing as much of it by
>> oneself as one can.
>
> What if the most one can do by himself is to point out the supposed problem
> (in the case of non programmers)? I can code a simple function at LilyPond
> at most, nothing fancier than that. And yet, I thought that I could bring
> some interesting points due to being occupied with classical music full time
> .
>
>
> David Kastrup wrote
>> That may include shepherding the discussion and
>> boiling it down to identifiable issues that can be brought to a
>> conclusion sufficient for the bug squad to pick out concrete issues for
>> the issue tracker.
>
> And isn't this what I constantly try to do here? I propose a discussion, and
> then there are two possible outcomes:
> - A lot of people agree and a new post is added on the issue tracker
> - Very few people or no one agrees, in which case the post is left
> forgotten.
>
> What seems to be the problem with this particular post here? What did I do
> differently than the other ones?
>
>
> David Kastrup wrote
>>> So I will happily leave things as they are and continue to simply use
>>> my tweaks and overrides as I usually do.
>>
>> See, and that's where things get strange: you claim to use tweaks and
>> overrides to get particular behavior, but you don't share them as part
>> of getting the weight lifted and making people see how to go about the
>> change.  They may be a bad idea, but they are at least a starting point.
>> It's much easier mentally to tell somebody how he could do something
>> better than it is to write stuff up from scratch.
>
> There is nothing "strange" here, David. Everything I did is clearly stated
> all over the place:
>
> - About the beams, I posted a file named beam.ly and an image named beam.png
> in the first message of this post. There you will see how I tweak the beams
> to get what I want
> - About the spacing, as I stated before on the message you "claim" to have
> read, "I am no programmer on this level and on this particular case I do not
> know how to improve it. ". On top of that, in the first message of this
> post, I added the files spacing.ly and spacing.png. These two are not
> solutions because they are silly (I just manually moved the grobs around),
> but it illustrates clearly what I think would be best.
> - In the "sister" post about bar numbers, I posted my tweaks in an image
> bar_no.png. Nobody seemed interested in that, but if anyone wants, I am
> happy to share my code.
>
> So tell me please what is still """strange""" here?
>
>
>
> --
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> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Beam-positions-and-time-signature-spacing-tp153538p153776.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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