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Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score


From: Flaming Hakama by Elaine
Subject: Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:52:23 -0700

I am curious as to what are the "killer" use cases?

I have a suggestion, which I use for consolidating many things global (key, tempo, meter, rehearsal markings), but would like to understand the limitations of the current approach.


Another way of asking this is, what is so terrible with the obvious approach?

BbClarinet = relative c { a4 b c d | R1 }
EbClarinet = relative c { e4 fis g a }

clarinet = relative c {
  \mark \markup { "Bb Clarinet" }
  \key a minor \BbClarinet
  \mark \markup { "Eb Clarinet" }
  \key e minor \EbClarinet
}

concertClarinet = relative c {
  \key g minor
  \transpose c bf { \BbClarinet }
  \transpose c eb { \EbClarinet }
}


Or, if you think in concert pitch:

BbClarinet = relative c { g4 a bes c | R1 }
EbClarinet = relative c { g4 a bes c }

transposedClarinet = relative c {
  \mark \markup { "Bb Clarinet" }
  \key a minor \transpose bf c { \BbClarinet }
  \mark \markup { "Eb Clarinet" }
  \key e minor \transpose ef c { \EbClarinet }
}

concertClarinet = relative c {
  \key g minor
  \BbClarinet
  \EbClarinet
}



David Elaine Alt
415 . 341 .4954                                           "Confusion is highly underrated"
address@hidden
skype: flaming_hakama
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On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:43 AM, <address@hidden> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:Transposing instruments in orchestra score (Kieren MacMillan)
   2. Re:Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks (Dennis Clason)
   3. Re:Mensural ligature (address@hidden)
   4. Re:Transposing instruments in orchestra score (David Kastrup)
   5. Re:Transposing instruments in orchestra score (Orm Finnendahl)
   6. Re:Transposing instruments in orchestra score (David Kastrup)
   7. Re:Trill span problem (Simon Albrecht)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 19:18:23 -0400
From: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
To: David Kastrup <address@hidden>
Cc: Lilypond-User Mailing List <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hello all,

Sorry I?m late to the party?

A critical feature of a proper and useable multi-instrumentalist framework would be the ability to put in global variables which include the key signature(s) for the work, and the part would present the correct transposition of that key signature (as well as the pitches, of course) upon the switchInstrument call.

David and I played around with some options last year, and the thread ended on a less-than-enthusastic note. Perhaps it?s time to revive this and clean it up once and for all? I can tell you for certain that a killer multi-instrumentalist framework would go a very long way to enticing some of my composer and MD buddies over to The Pond (or, as they refer to it, ?The Dark Side?).

Best,
Kieren.

???????????????
Kieren MacMillan, composer
www:  <http://www.kierenmacmillan.info>
email:  address@hidden


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 17:26:46 -0600
From: Dennis Clason <address@hidden>
To: Hans Aberg <address@hidden>
Cc: lilypond-user <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Thanks very, very much, Hans.

I have no idea how I downloaded the PPC version, but obviously I must have.  I re-installed LP from your link and it runs again.

Dennis Clason
address@hidden



On May 8, 2014, at 7:23 AM, Hans Aberg <address@hidden> wrote:

> On 8 May 2014, at 05:57, Dennis Clason <address@hidden> wrote:
>
>> I?m using LilyPond 2.18.2
>
> It seems you are using the PPC version - it does not work in OS X 10.7 or later (requires Rosetta). Try the x86 version, the first entry on this page [1], it works.
>
> 1. http://www.lilypond.org/macos-x.html
>
>

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Message: 3
Date: Fri,  9 May 2014 01:04:17 +0200 (CEST)
From: address@hidden
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Mensural ligature
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jean-Charles Malahieude:
> On my way to typeset a mass by Monteverdi, I'm blocked with some
> ligatures (see
> http://musicofyesterday.com/historical-music-theory/expanded-history-musical-notation-part-4/
> for examples)

You seem to equate ligatures with legato, I'd be interested to hear
if you have any references to that.

> I can code the first one in its 8th image like this:
>
>    << \tag #'Urtext { \[ d1 e1*3/4 \] }
>       \tag #'Modern { d1 e2. } >> f4 g1
>
> but don't find any way to get the E in black.

This is what I did one in a time (\version "2.6.5"):

    g1 \[ d \melisma
          % this is a fake minor calor, together with the moved b4
          \once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'( 0.9 . -1.8)
          a'1*3/4^\markup{ \beam #0.9 #0 #0.5 }
          \]

(found near the end of [1]).
The result was on page 7 (between 64 and 65) in [2].

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

[1] http://turkos.aspodata.se/noter/palestrina/dies_sanctificatus/Music.ly
[2] http://turkos.aspodata.se/noter/palestrina/dies_sanctificatus/all.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Asp? Data
Lilla Asp? 148
S-742 94 ?sthammar
Sweden
+46 173 140 57





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 07:08:19 +0200
From: David Kastrup <address@hidden>
To: Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden>
Cc: Lilypond-User Mailing List <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden> writes:

> Hello all,
>
> Sorry I?m late to the party?
>
> A critical feature of a proper and useable multi-instrumentalist
> framework would be the ability to put in global variables which
> include the key signature(s) for the work, and the part would present
> the correct transposition of that key signature (as well as the
> pitches, of course) upon the switchInstrument call.

This works when using music quotes.  Music quotes are a somewhat
awkwardly limited single-context contraption, so it's indeed likely that
a \key statement, affecting a Staff, would not transfer well.

> David and I played around with some options last year, and the thread
> ended on a less-than-enthusastic note. Perhaps it?s time to revive
> this and clean it up once and for all?

I don't see a once-and-for-all solution on the wall.  But perhaps there
is room for more convenient trickery.

--
David Kastrup



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 10:08:25 +0200
From: Orm Finnendahl <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi all,

 as I understand the situation, the most convenient situation for all
would be the possibility of a context switch in mid-score affecting
the way lilypond is interpreting (seeing) the pitches, which could get
changed globally by including different files with redefinitions of
the context-switch statement. This is in analogy of the transposition
statement except that it doesn't affect midi but notation and
therefore probably is much trickier to handle properly.

I'd be very willing to sponsor this, if there is a feasible solution
within a reasonable amount of time.

David, Kieren, anybody?

--
Orm

Am Freitag, den 09. Mai 2014 um 07:08:19 Uhr (+0200) schrieb David Kastrup:
> Kieren MacMillan <address@hidden> writes:
>
> > David and I played around with some options last year, and the thread
> > ended on a less-than-enthusastic note. Perhaps it?s time to revive
> > this and clean it up once and for all?
>
> I don't see a once-and-for-all solution on the wall.  But perhaps there
> is room for more convenient trickery.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 10:39:18 +0200
From: David Kastrup <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Transposing instruments in orchestra score
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain

Orm Finnendahl <address@hidden> writes:

> Hi all,
>
>  as I understand the situation, the most convenient situation for all
> would be the possibility of a context switch in mid-score affecting
> the way lilypond is interpreting (seeing) the pitches, which could get
> changed globally by including different files with redefinitions of
> the context-switch statement. This is in analogy of the transposition
> statement except that it doesn't affect midi but notation and
> therefore probably is much trickier to handle properly.

A lot of things look at pitches.  With Midi, it's just an offset to the
final output.  You could do stuff like

\transposition #(ly:make-pitch 0 0 3/100)

and that has a reasonable interpretation (no idea whether the way
pitches are implemented will result in reasonable Midi, though).  With
visuals, not so much.  And it's not just an "offset": a whole
arrangement of notename and accidentals and custom engravers might
depend on them.

--
David Kastrup



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 10:43:27 +0200
From: Simon Albrecht <address@hidden>
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: Trill span problem
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Am 09.05.2014 00:06, schrieb Peter Bjuhr:
>
> On 2014-05-08 16:22, Knute Snortum wrote:
>> I have a problem with sequential trill spans.  they seems to be just
>> a little too long and therefore they stagger vertically.  I would
>> think the solution is to shorten the trill span but I'm not sure how
>> to do this.
>>
>> \version "2.18.2"
>>
>>
>> \relative c''' {
>>
>> \time 2/4
>>
>>   | f2 \startTrillSpan \ppp
>>
>>   | d2 \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | c4 \startTrillSpan d \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | c4 \startTrillSpan b \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | c2 \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | b2 \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | a2 \startTrillSpan
>>
>>   | f2 \startTrillSpan
>>
>> }
>>
>
> I don't know if it's the best solution, but you can try adding
>
> \override TrillSpanner.bound-details #'right #'padding = #1.9
>
Or \override TrillSpanner.bound-details.right.padding = 1.9 with the
very convenient new 2.18 syntax.
>
>
> before all the trills.
>
>
> Best
> Peter
>
Best, Simon
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