Re: Why does \skip extend an extender

[Thomas Morley]

2015-12-20 18:35 GMT+01:00 Cynthia Karl <address@hidden>:
>
>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Phil Holmes <address@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick or Cynthia Karl" <address@hidden>
>> To: <address@hidden>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 3:41 PM
>> Subject: Why does \skip extend an extender
>>
>>
>>> In the following snippet:
>>>
>>> music = \relative b' {
>>> c4 d e f
>>> f g a b
>>> c,1
>>> }
>>>
>>> Lyrics = \lyricmode {
>>> c d e __ _
>>> _ \skip 1 \skip 1 \skip 1
>>> C
>>> }
>>>
>>> \score {
>>> \new Staff \music
>>> \addlyrics \Lyrics
>>> \layout { }
>>> }
>>>
>>> I want the three skips to skip past the notes "g a b".  That is, I want the 
>>> singing of “e” to terminate with the 2nd “f”.  But for some reason the 
>>> extender is extended through the notes “g a b”.  How can I fix this?
>>
>> Clearly the extender continues since the expectation is that the singer has 
>> to do something with these notes, and continuing to sing "e" is the only 
>> option.  If the extender ended on the 2nd f, I would have no idea what is 
>> intended for the next 3 notes.  It would be very confusing.
>
> I guess I don’t really understand the thinking here.  Does it not frequently 
> happen that an instrument performer and a singer “play” the same notes, the 
> performer on his instrument and the singer with his voice?  And if that ever 
> does happen, wouldn’t it be conceivable that there might come a time when the 
> singer should be silent while the performer continues on with the notes?
>
> I just ran into this again this morning with the song by Anonymous, "Si de 
> vos mi bien me aparto”, from Venice in the 1500s.  The cantus part has a 
> second verse in the first staff of the piece, then silence until the last 
> staff of the piece, when the second verse reappears.

Already done here:
http://www.uma.es/victoria/varios.html
ly-file:
http://www.uma.es/victoria/varios/ly/Anonimo-Si_De_Vos_Mi_Bien.ly

>
> Expectations aside, I have been unable to find documentation supporting this 
> quirk of \skip.  I don’t see why \skip has to take on the duties of “_” in 
> extending an extender another note.

Well, quite often the same goal can be reached taking different
routes. Documenting all might blow up the docs even more...

>>
>> However, if you want to do this, replace \skip with "".

Doesn't work properly. It will return a warning.
See the examples below with different approaches, some work some not.

\version "2.14.2" % up to 2.19.32

\relative c' {
  c4 d e f g2 e c1
}
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _ _ C }
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _ \skip 1 C }
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _  " " C }
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _ \markup " " C }
%% works:
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _  "  " C } %% nb, doubled space!
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _ \markup \null C }
%% The following ends the extender but returns:
%% 2.14.2: programming error: cannot align on self: empty element
%% 2.16.2: works without warning
%% >=2.18.2: warning: LyricText has empty extent and non-empty stencil.
\addlyrics { c d e f __ _  "" C }

So I'd think we should have a documented method to finish an extender
where the user wants.

Cheers,
  Harm

>>
>> --
>> Phil Holmes