Re: Fwd: Re: install frescoba 2.18.2 in Ubuntu

[David Wright]

On Thu 03 Mar 2016 at 18:20:48 (+0100), BB wrote:
>  Ciatate of your post from 03.03.2016 09:03
> 
>  "...I have no idea which posting you mean by "last posting". "Last"
>  is particularly ambiguous in English; we do not even have the
>  distinction in meaning made AIUI by the position of "dernier"
>  in French. ..."
> 
>  Here is the post I referred to:
> 
> 
>  On Sun 28 Feb 2016 at 08:29:52 (+0100), Bernard wrote:
> 
>  Hi Noeck,
> 
>  Second reply, I was not reading to careful.

OK. I don't know why you couldn't thread your corrected posting to the
correct message, or include a reference to it if you had deleted the
thread already.

I'm not going to attempt to reconstruct all the text below into some
sort of timeline, nor look at it in any kind of graphical HTML viewer.
To me, it's opaque. I have no idea if any of it is original to this
thread, or whether it's all quoted from previous postings. It's
there for others to pick over should they wish to.

Cheers,
David.

> 
>  [1]http://lilypond.org/unix.html before? There is a small "Install"
>  section. What was missing for you?
> 
>  Yes I saw that, but it was missing install from shell. I really
>  prefer using apt-get because I have bad experience  with download
>  and install because of the depencies hell.
>  So the message should be "do not us use apt-get because you will
>  retrieve probably version 2.16.2"
>  But even better, use a apt-get ppa repository, this you keep u to
>  date your self, without being dependant of Debian.
> 
>  I'm not sure what Debian has to do with all this. I thought you were
>  using ubuntu (in the subject line).
> 
>  The current (jessie/stable) version of LilyPond (LP) is 2.18.2.
>  The current (jessie/stable) version of Frescobaldi (F) is 2.0.13.
> 
>  AIUI there is no LP version dependency of Debian's F 2.0.13:
>  Depends: python (>= 2.7), python (<< 2.8), lilypond, python-poppler-qt4, 
> python-qt4, python-pypm, tango-icon-theme
> 
>  I have tried out Debian's F with lilypond.org's LP 2.19.36 with no
>  problems AFAICT.
> 
> 
>  Like : [2]https://launchpad.net/~frescobaldi/+archive/ubuntu/ppa (but
>  the status is unknown, and out of date)
> 
>  This info is inconsistent with the Frescobaldi info, and my
>  assumption was Frescobaldi was correct. Which was wrong.
> 
>  - Should it mention the --prefix option?
> 
>  It would help, for me that was not crucial.
> 
>  - Should it mention that you can have several versions installed in
>    parallel?
> 
>  Yes it sure does. Because I had version 2.16.2 was installed and
>  Frescobaldi urge to uninstall previous version of python-ly because
>  it can cause inconsistency. Unfortunately I can not recall where I
>  found that info.
> 
>  This is presumably F-speak. AFAIK Debian has only packaged this as
>  python3-ly and it's not in jessie/stable. This may be why the latter's
>  version of F is old.
> 
> 
>  - Was only the Frescobaldi settings part new to you? Should it be
>    mentioned?
> 
>  Yes it would. Installing Frescobaldi does install Lilypond, which is
>  very convenient, if it was the correct Lilypond version.
>  Frescobaldi should mention only the old version is installed, and go
>  the the Lilypond website for info how to install Lilypond 2.18.2.
> 
>  It's not clear to me what is meant by "correct LP version" or
>  "Frescobaldi should mention...". Earlier in the thread, Joram points
>  to [3]http://lilypond.org/unix.html and implies that he has something to
>  do with its maintenance. (See below.) But that's for LP. There's also
>  [4]http://frescobaldi.org/download which has instructions about
>  installing F's dependencies. Is that the page you wish to improve?
>  If so, you have to bear in mind that people's idea of "correct LP
>  version" could vary widely.
> 
>  On that page, there is a link to [5]http://frescobaldi.org/links#distros
>  which seems to be very out of date. For example it mentions
>  Debian "testing" with a link to
>  [6]http://packages.debian.org/nl/squeeze/editors/frescobaldi
>  That's about six years or three distributions out of date.
> 
>  I can't find any statement that says you don't need a specific version
>  of LP to install with a given version of F. It just so happens that at
>  the moment the stable version of LP (2.18.2) is the same as the
>  stable version of F (2.18.2 since December 26th, 2015). Perhaps
>  this is all the more reason to point out that LP from 2.16 to 2.19
>  will all run with F 2.18.2 (and older versions too).
> 
> 
>  On 27-02-16 19:11, Noeck wrote:
> 
>  Hi Bernard,
> 
>  Am 27.02.2016 um 18:54 schrieb Bernard:
> 
>  Wow, Joram. Thank you very much. Did this work.
> 
>  Glad it helped you.
> 
> 
>  Update the installation documentation with your info would help very much.
> 
>  There was a similar question just a few days ago, so I take this request
>  for improvement seriously. Did you find the Linux download page
>  [7]http://lilypond.org/unix.html before? There is a small "Install"
>  section. What was missing for you?
> 
>  - Should it mention the --prefix option?
>  - Should it mention that you can have several versions installed in
>    parallel?
>  - Was only the Frescobaldi settings part new to you? Should it be
>    mentioned?
> 
>  Cheers,
>  David.
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  lilypond-user mailing list
>  address@hidden
>  [9]https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
>    On 03.03.2016 18:08, David Wright wrote:
> 
>  On Thu 03 Mar 2016 at 09:37:55 (+0100), Blöchl Bernhard wrote:
> 
> 
>  -------- Originalnachricht --------
>  Betreff: Re: install frescoba 2.18.2 in Ubuntu
>  Datum: 03.03.2016 09:03
>  Von: Blöchl Bernhard [10]<address@hidden>
>  An: address@hidden
> 
>  The headline in the original post was not correctly positioned! The
>  subsequent text to it was NOT written by David Wright but lies in my
>  own responsibility. The headline should only referencing the
>  citation. Sorry for my mistake. Here the corrected version:
> 
>  I did not read the complete thread and after reading the last
>  posting I will not do that.
> 
>  I have no idea which posting you mean by "last posting". "Last"
>  is particularly ambiguous in English; we do not even have the
>  distinction in meaning made AIUI by the position of "dernier"
>  in French.
> 
> 
>  That is a collection of citation of
>  unverified storys, opinions and wishes.
> 
>  ... So I have no idea of what _your_ opinion refers to, which
>  means it's impossible to agree or disagree with you. That's why
>  we normally quote what we're referring to on mailing lists.
> 
> 
>  I do not understand the
>  central problem and how to address it to lilypond? And Frescobaldi
>  AFAIK is anothert development team?
> 
>  I don't understand why you've written question marks here.
>  Are you implying that someone has stated that "you do not understand
>  the central problem and how to address it to lilypond" and that you
>  disagree with them? If so, who implied it, and where?
> 
>  I can't parse the construction "And Frescobaldi as far as I know is
>  another development team?". If _you_ don't know what you know, how can
>  anyone else?
> 
> 
>  Am 03.03.2016 06:40, schrieb David Wright:
> 
> 
>  But even better, use a apt-get ppa repository, this you keep u to
>  date your self, without being dependant of Debian.
> 
>  For the second time, you have posted that David Wright wrote something
>  that David Wright didn't. Please take more care with your postings.
> 
> 
>  The content and versions of a repository are in the responsibility
>  and taste of the package manager(s) and usually can not simply be
>  affected by the software developers, say lilypond or frescobaldi
>  development team. A repository is a COLLECTION of software for a
>  particular linux version
> 
>  I agree with all that.
> 
> 
>  - you want a "repository" only contending
>  lilypond/frescobaldi? Who should do that?
> 
>  I don't want anything; this isn't _my_ problem. There was an original
>  problem that "Bernard [12]<address@hidden>" was having, coping
>  with mixing an ubuntu distribution with software downloaded from
>  elsewhere:
>  [13]http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-02/msg00758.html
>  Then there was a discussion about clarifying some instructions, but I
>  don't know which instructions were being discussed becaues that wasn't
>  made clear with a precise reference:
>  [14]http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-02/msg00772.html
>  There followed a posting which contained "But even better, use a
>  apt-get ppa repository, this you keep u to date your self, without
>  being dependant of Debian" which is what I commented on:
>  [15]http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-02/msg00773.html
>  This posting appeared to me to be muddling up different distributions
>  (Debian, ubuntu), different ways of installing software (package
>  managers, direct installation of upstream software), software that had
>  and didn't have (versioned or absolute) dependencies (lilypond,
>  frescobaldi, python-ly, pyqt4, pyqt5).
> 
>  It did not appear to me that progress was going to be made in
>  clarifying instructions (whichever ones are being discussed) unless
>  the terms people used were better defined, and naked version numbers
>  were avoided particularly as the main players have identical or
>  closely identical version numbers at present. It's no effort to write
>  LP 2.18.2 or F 2.16.2.
> 
> 
>  For clarification best would be to target your problem precisely for
>  a simple minded reader.
> 
>  Cheers,
>  David.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-user mailing list
> address@hidden
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user