Re: install frescoba 2.18.2 in Ubuntu

[Bernard]

Hi BB,

> I have already explained that I aboslutele do not understand what's 
> the sense, the goal, the informativ content of this thread. I 
> recommend to ignore that inflated contraproductive nonsense logorrhoea 
> thread! Or does anybody see a win for lilypond users? Is it an attempt 
> to abuse lilypond installation for a hacking attack? 

I had a problem, it was solved with the help of members of this group. 
Then there was question to prevent this in the future. I tried to help, 
but it became confused.
So confused it results to your above response.

So to all : please stop. And thanks for all your help.

Bernard

On 04-03-16 12:39, BB wrote:
> On 04.03.2016 10:05, Bernard wrote:
> > Hi Jordan and David Wrigth,
> >
> > Let me tell thank I am confused on what is being said, who has which 
> > point of view. I could start research in this thread but I would be 
> > very time consuming, and even then the value of the result is limited.
> > I get the impression I am not the only one who is confused. And for 
> > your info, for me everything is already solved a long time ago, this 
> > discussion what to do for future new users of Frescobaldi and Lilypond.
>
> I do not have any problem and I know many other users not having any 
> problem as well. Obviously you try to take problems for granted? I 
> only found described problems having not following the usual lilypond 
> installation process. The /bin problem thingy (is it really is a 
> problem? It is not if you follow the usual installation process. And 
> the $PATH is absolutely needless and dangerous! I refer to and agree 
> with David Kastrup. I think nobody should open his linux station to 
> anybody in this way!
>
> I have already explained that I aboslutele do not understand what's 
> the sense, the goal, the informativ content of this thread. I 
> recommend to ignore that inflated contraproductive nonsense logorrhoea 
> thread! Or does anybody see a win for lilypond users? Is it an attempt 
> to abuse lilypond installation for a hacking attack?
>
> > > What remains for me: A complete installation guide covering up-to-date
> > > versions of both Frescobaldi and Lilypond would be helpful (cf. PS). 
> > > This is a quote of Noeck / Joram
> >
> > That is not what I wanted to do. I just want a measure system so it 
> > is total clear what we talk about. To reduce the confusion, which is 
> > partly created only because the length of the thread.
> >
> > > Yes, but whose installation do you compare it with? Me, running
> > > Debian's F 2.0.13 on Debian's LP 2.18.2 and lilypond's LP 2.19.36
> > > with python-ly installed from Debian's testing distribution? Or
> > > someone else running openSUSE with a different mix? This is a quote 
> > > of David Wrigth
> > Indeed, that makes it complex. In the end system X does work and 
> > system Y does not work. This can be compared for differences. With 
> > one call. The expert, you, reads this report and suggest a changes, 
> > and execute this one call again. To verify if the change was 
> > effective. Until there is working system, or except that just a 
> > specific environment f.e. OpenBSD with a specific installation , 
> > installation is not possible. That is also important knowledge, no 
> > need to try something if you know It can not work.
> >
> > > Your enemy puts cp somewhere like /tmp/cp, makes it world-executable,
> > > then waits for someone to cd /tmp and copy some files. This is a 
> > > quote of David Wrigth
> > Yes but also lighter. There might be suggestions who both work. On 
> > with more rights and one with limited rights. Then you can choose the 
> > one with the most limited rights for security. I have seen a 
> > suggestion for help
> >
> > > It's likely installed where you told the installer to install it, 
> > > but is
> > > not in your PATH variable. Try setting up your PATH appropriately in
> > > your
> > > ~/.bashrc
> > > or whatever startup file may be relevant for your system.
> > Looks reasonable. It might work, and the advice was written with all 
> > the positive and constructive intention.
> >
> > But I found the thread : "Login failure after editing ".bashrc" and 
> > ".profile" " see :http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2190876
> >
> > Following this advices would cause an additional risk for me. Later I 
> > got a less drastic intervention advice. Which I followed with success.
> >
> > So if two solutions are possible, Two different measurements of 
> > systems who both work, the choose the least demanding one. When 
> > comparing systems configurations this can be done.
> >
> > I repeat :
> > > What remains for me: A complete installation guide covering up-to-date
> > My suggestion would be to :
> > 1) First check if the resources for installation are available
> > 2) Complete installation (guide) This could be limited, because the 
> > precondition are met before execution.
> > 3) Check if installation was successful , f.e. executing a unit-test.
> >
> > All these 3 steps could be combined in one. But the first step should 
> > also be executed separately to find a specific condition which 
> > requires help of experts, of you.
> >
> > For me there is doubt. I do realize developing such measuring system 
> > is complex. And time consuming to build. And I doubt how much need 
> > there is for a short falsifiable report which compares two systems.
> >
> > I have no idea of how many installations of Lilypond and Frescobaldi 
> > there are each month, and how much of them do fail, if this can be 
> > measured. If this number is limited, it is much better to continue 
> > how you did it until now.
> >
> > With regards,
> >
> > Bernard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 03-03-16 22:26, Noeck wrote:
> > > Hi Bernard
> > >
> > > > > http://lilypond.org/unix.html before? There is a small "Install"
> > > > > section. What was missing for you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I saw that, but it was missing install from shell. I really
> > > > > prefer using apt-get because I have bad experience with download
> > > > > and install because of the depencies hell.
> > > Generally speaking, yes. But I never had problems with the lilypond
> > > shell installer. I agree an up-to-date ppa would be an interesting
> > > option for Ubuntu users. (I use one for other software.) But as always,
> > > someone would have to do it and look after it.
> > >
> > > > > So the message should be "do not us use apt-get because you will
> > > > > retrieve probably version 2.16.2"
> > > No, because a) there is nothing wrong with getting 2.16 b) you can 
> > > still
> > > add newer versions, c) which version you get depends on your
> > > distribution. Ubuntu 14.04 is almost 2 years old, so yes the packaged
> > > software is old, too. For instance, Ubuntu 15.10 contains LP 2.18.2.
> > >
> > > > > - Should it mention that you can have several versions installed in
> > > > > parallel?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes it sure does. Because I had version 2.16.2 was installed and
> > > > > Frescobaldi urge to uninstall previous version of python-ly because
> > > > > it can cause inconsistency. Unfortunately I can not recall where I
> > > > > found that info.
> > > This is very unclear. Frescobaldi versions depend on versions of
> > > python-ly. But neither the version number of Frescobaldi nor the 
> > > version
> > > number of python-ly are related to the version of lilypond.
> > > So, as I mentioned you can just install Frescobaldi from the package
> > > repositories and it should come with the correct python-ly. 
> > > python-ly is
> > > not lilypond.
> > >
> > > > > - Was only the Frescobaldi settings part new to you? Should it be
> > > > > mentioned?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes it would. Installing Frescobaldi does install Lilypond, which is
> > > > > very convenient, if it was the correct Lilypond version.
> > > There is nothing wrong with this Lilypond version. It is just older 
> > > than
> > > necessary. In principle you can use any LP version with any Frescobaldi
> > > version.
> > >
> > > > > Frescobaldi should mention only the old version is installed, and go
> > > > > the the Lilypond website for info how to install Lilypond 2.18.2.
> > > The Frescobaldi version in Ubuntu is not new either so why should it
> > > know about newer Lilypond versions? It just uses what you provide.
> > >
> > > > Earlier in the thread, Joram points
> > > > to http://lilypond.org/unix.html and implies that he has something to
> > > > do with its maintenance. (See below.)
> > > Not really. I am familiar enough with some maintainers and developers,
> > > that I dare to say that good suggestions on how to improve the
> > > documentation have chances to get in there. I could propose a patch if
> > > we find sensible improvements to the documentation. But so far this
> > > discussion produced more confusion than tangible proposals – at least
> > > from what I understood.
> > >
> > > What remains for me: A complete installation guide covering up-to-date
> > > versions of both Frescobaldi and Lilypond would be helpful (cf. PS).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Joram
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PS: I know that the following statement will not reach consensus here,
> > > so I am not sure if it makes sense to write it. But privately, this is
> > > how I see it: Most (new) users are probably not used to understand how
> > > different components of their software is related, they view it as one
> > > single system. E.g. Sibelius is the program to create, view, edit, 
> > > print
> > > sib files. For non-programmers it needs some insights that Frescobaldi
> > > (GUI and IDE) is separated from Lilypond ("engine"). This is why when
> > > talking about Lilypond I sell it as Frescobaldi and only mention later
> > > that using other editors and pdf viewers is possible.
> > > Choice is good, clear recommendations are even more important for
> > > newcomers. IMHO.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
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