Re: Changing voice order...

[Flaming Hakama by Elaine]

I'm not sure if this is a language problem, or an attitude problem.  Because it seems like you are coming to the opposite interpretation of what I say, despite me being very detailed in my explanation.  

Let's start with the main point:

THE VERTICAL ORDER OF NOTES ON THE PAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORDER OF THE VOICES WITHIN THE << // // // >> CONSTRUCT, OR WHAT THE VOICE NAMES ARE CALLED

Do you agree with that?  You should, since it is true.  

If so, let's go on the the consequence of this:

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO NAME IMPLICIT VOICES WITHIN << // // // >> BASED ON THE VERTICAL ORDER ON WHICH THEY APPEAR ON THE PAGE, SINCE THEIR VERTICAL ORDER IS NOT FIXED.

Any objections so far?

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:21 PM, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:

Flaming Hakama by Elaine <address@hidden> writes:

> On Nov 3, 2016 12:55 PM, "David Kastrup" <address@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> Flaming Hakama by Elaine <address@hidden> writes:
>>
>> > I wanted to jump in here because in this discussion, a lot of people
> have
>> > said or implied things like (paraphrasing) "top to bottom in << // //
> // >>
>> > should correspond top to bottom in the score", and suggesting naming
>> > conventions based on this.
>> >
>> > These thoughts, while well-intentioned, are bad since they are
> misleading
>> > for this important reason:
>> >
>> >      !!! Top to bottom on the staff has precisely nothing to do with any
>> > conventions of << // // // >> !!!
>> >
>> >
>> > Top to bottom on the staff has ONLY to do with the relative pitches.
> For
>> > example, whenever an Alto part goes lower than the Soprano in an SATB
>> > arrangment, then the staff order (during that voice crossing) from top
> to
>> > bottom is ASTB, not SATB.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't get your point.  Stem direction and displacements do not
>> change for voice crossings: that's the sole way to actually recognize
>> them.
>
> Maybe you should read the whole of my post.
>
> I think we agree that the vertical order of voices/notes has nothing
> to do with their stem direction and indentation.

No, we don't agree on that.  The order of voices is not always the same
as the order of notes, and the order of voices has a whole lot to do
with their stem direction and indentation: the order of voices does not
change with voice crossings, and neither does their individual markup.

> Which is why any set of names that imply order (like one, two, etc.)
> are bad choices for the voice names.

I like the numeric identifiers in some of the proposals a bit better
than the written names since they seem to suggest more of a _property_
rather than an _identity_ of a voice markup.  That makes it less awkward
to me in some manner that the numbers for the down-pointing voices are
assigned from bottom to top.

David Elaine Alt

415 . 341 .4954                                           "Confusion is highly underrated"

address@hidden

self-immolation.info
skype: flaming_hakama
Producer ~ Composer ~ Instrumentalist

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