Re: Notational conventions

[David Kastrup]

Hans Åberg <address@hidden> writes:

>> On 9 Nov 2016, at 13:37, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
>> 
>> Hans Åberg <address@hidden> writes:
>> 
>>>> On 9 Nov 2016, at 10:45, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The problem with appoggiature is that their timing is loose as the
>>>> transition to the main note is not supposed to be a rhythmical accent.
>>>> If you listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQseNJP_bzk in
>>>> comparison to most renditions, you'll find that I execute the
>>>> appoggiature on the long side, passing the "proper" moment (and yes,
>>>> I know that I have only executed the explicitly written ones in the
>>>> manuscript with "violine concertante" as I was too lazy to figure out a
>>>> strategy myself when the top voice is almost but not quite a solo voice
>>>> in a string quartet).
>>> 
>>> You need an expert: one of my teachers could do Baroque improvisations.
>>> 
>>> The long grace notes, I usually prefer toward the half written value,
>>> though some perform the full value.
>> 
>> An appoggiatura does not feel like a "grace note" to me.  Vaccai states
>> in his singing exercises that the appoggiatura should be _at least_ the
>> written value.  The point being that the _main_ note pitch is
>> uninteresting and is what the note relaxes rather than resolves to.
>
> The execution varied considerably, according to Harvard Concise,
> giving an example of a 1/8 in small print connected to a 1/2-note: The
> French might execute it before the main note, otherwise as half the
> written value, the value, or longer, plus some.
>
>> Of course masking this change by executing it simultaneously with
>> _significant_ changes in other voices is a perfectly valid kind of
>> execution.  But it becomes almost impossible to do this with an
>> articulation that differentiates the appoggiatura from a regular note:
>> when transcribing music played in that manner, no appoggiatura would
>> ever appear.
>> 
>> Which is vaguely disturbing to me.  So I might be overdoing my "musical
>> pronunciation" as a sign of me being unable to convey very subtle
>> differences in a sovereign manner.
>
> I prefer no overlap in the ornaments, that is, legato style.

Hm?  I was not talking about overlap (and when referring to a singing
manual, overlap with the main note would be quite a feat).  I was
talking about _when_ to change to the main note with an appoggiatura.  I
don't know any school that would make a nonlegato execution of an
appoggiatura a serious option.

> Even in Balkan music, overlap does not seem necessary.

You completely lose me here but it's not like that would be anything new.

-- 
David Kastrup