Re: Gis major key signature; Lily's key signature algorithm

[Urs Liska]

Am 07.02.2018 um 22:56 schrieb Blöchl Bernhard:
> If you use equally tempered scale f♭ major is really identical with e 
> major. (That is not true in just tempered tuning.) May be with my 
> limited knowledge of music I misunderstood something?

Maybe you should start sudying music as an artistic and historical 
matter instead of just an abstract or mathematical model.

> Schwanengesang has 4 ♭s. Concerning to the circle of fifth that is f 
> minor or a♭ major. That is not the same as f♭ major as mentioned in 
> the original mail?

If you can't even tell if that song is in a flat major or f minor you 
shouldn't even start discussing this.
Apart from that I already explained that this song's main key is a flat 
major and that it moves on to reach f flat minor (as a sudominant to c 
flat major) at a certain moment.

My point was that this f flat minor seventh chord is really f flat minor 
and not e minor.

> If one is doing functional harmony and stacking thirds, indeed f minor 
> and a♭ major it is different, producing different chord progressions 
> because starting with f or with a♭ major respectively. So the 
> Schwanengaesang needs some investigation and harmonic analysis to make 
> clear the used key, f minor and a♭ major. Skilled musicians (I am not) 
> might do that.

To give some beginner-level hints: The song starts with an a flat major 
chord, ends with an a flat major chord, and has a key signature of four 
flats. So adventurous spirits might consider putting a bet on one out of 
the two candidates.

> If one is only playing the notes of the sheet is this really important?

YES!

> Am 07.02.2018 22:18, schrieb Urs Liska:
> > Am 07.02.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Blöchl Bernhard:
> > > You mention f♭? Then you get a double ♭!
> > > "
> > > {\key fes \major c d e}
> > >
> > > You go better with
> > >
> > > {\key e \major c d e}
> > >
> > > That double crosses and double ♭s happen frequently if you 
> > > transcripe music. in this cases it's better to use the circle of 
> > > fifth/fourth, however you might call it.
> >
> > Wow, quite a bold statement, given that we have no clue about the
> > historical context of the original poster's question.
> > I'd always argue that depending on the style (actually most European
> > music from the 18th until far into the 20th century) E major is worlds
> > apart from Fes major (and with "worlds" I really mean heaven/earth,
> > life/death, dream/reality, whatever you want).
> >
> > My favourite example is in Schubert's song Schwangesang D 744
> > (http://imslp.org/wiki/Schwanengesang,_D.744_(Schubert,_Franz) ).
> > The song is in a flat major, then turns to the darker mood of the
> > variant a flat minor and its parallel c flat major (both six flats)
> > and then reaches an absolute anticlimax on the word "auflösend"
> > (meaning: life is dissolving) on the minor subdominant: a fes minor
> > seventh chord (=> <fes' asas' ces'' eses''> in LilyPond language)!
> > There's no way this could ever make sense in e minor.
> > But what makes even *less* sense is the helpless rendering of the
> > original edition: <fes g ces d> (the d even being "resolved" to des).
> >
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