Re: Gis major key signature; Lily's key signature algorithm

[bb]

Am 08.02.2018 um 10:16 schrieb David Kastrup:
> Blöchl Bernhard <address@hidden> writes:
>
> > Am 08.02.2018 01:08, schrieb Urs Liska:
> > > Am 07.02.2018 um 22:56 schrieb Blöchl Bernhard:
> > > > If one is only playing the notes of the sheet is this really
> > > > important?
> > > YES!
> > Not in equally tempered scale. All that feelings of keys refer to the
> > historic tunings.
> Not unless you are playing from piano roll notation, tablature or any
> other notation omitting functional scale steps.
>
> Our whole harmonic system is designed around scales.  Something like
>
> {
>    <c e>4 <d f> <e g> <c e> | <d f> <e g> <f a>2 |
>    <d f>4 <e g> <f a> <d f> | <e g> <f a> <g b>2 |
> }
>
> sounds perfectly natural to us even though the thirds are
> major, minor, minor, major, major.  Try figuring this out as semitone
> intervals without referring to a scale (as a chromatic button accordion
> player which _has_ a uniform keyboard I know what I am talking about).
>
> > And by the way, do you know that Bachs "Wohltemperierte Klavier" was
> > written just to show how awfull that sounds in the ears of musicians
> > of taht time? (I heard that in my side studies to physics in the Music
> > Academie and you find that theory on the net as well.)
> You'll find a lot of "theories" on the net.  "Wohltemperirt" does not
> refer to equal temperament.  It also does not refer to meantone
> temperament.
Agree!

I forgot that Johann Sebastian Bachs Equal Temperament (he is sayed to 
be prononent of) was an unequal Well Temperament and not the equally 
tempered one of our days. (Historically there are two important reports 
of that, one by Werkmeister and one by Kirnberger, may be more?)
It is likely that he tuned his fifths justly (i.e. pure), that is easy 
and fast. (Forkel, Johann Nikolaus, Ueber Johann Sebastian Bachs Lebens, 
Kunst und Kunstwerke, Leipzig. 1802; facs. ed., Frankfurt, 1950; English 
trans., London 1820.
Forkel writes therein that  J. S. Bach always tuned his own keyboard and 
he needed not more than fifteen minutes.)
Kirnberger, one of Bachs pupils required to tune all the thirds sharp 
(do not have the source present actually - I think to remember.
I am sure many will disagree in future mails and indeed one finds 
different (lots of) reports and publications about. Historic tunings are 
an interesting topic to discuss and I appreciate the discussion going 
on. But I will jump out of this thread, even if I am wrong in some 
points  to do my other interesting work.

I never was a piano player, I play only different stringed instruments 
as a hobbyist, fretted and unfretted. But I know all that discussions 
from my pianist girlfriend, was a happy time, but long time past and gone.
> > To prevent myself from senseless discussions as a music hobbyist I
> > will ignore future discussions of the experts.
> A discussion implies listening.  Without listening, it's just a shouting
> match.  I have the feeling that communication in English is making it
> hard for you to get and make points.  That might make a German LilyPond
> user forum a better target for informal banter and would still leave the
> English list for getting solutions when the German-speaking community
> runs out of expertise.
As I already wrote above, I follow your recommendation and jump out of 
threads concerning musical interpretational discussions. My English is 
not precise enough for discussions about musical interpretation. But 
sorry, to discuss feelings of keys per se in the light of equally 
temperament is beyond my understanding, not to say nonsense and not a 
question of the quality of my English. (That "feeling" indeed was true 
for ancient tunings. Believe in that - I do not!) I had this discussions 
quite often at the Music Academy. What left using equally tempered 
tuning are TENSIONS between chords and the progression of chords alone.

I think for matters concerning use of lilypond my English is good enough 
and I discuss scientific physical matters in English without having 
problems so far.

Have fun, I am out and discard from the list.
Regards