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Re: Octave review


From: Daniel J Sebald
Subject: Re: Octave review
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:55:29 -0600
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041020

Jaroslav Hajek wrote:
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Daniel J Sebald <address@hidden> wrote:

Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:


True, it's a touted Matlab feature, but as I see it Simulink provides no
extra functionality to the core of Matlab and adds little to what makes
the
language as useful as it is.  Octave/Matlab's benefit is that of any
computer language: efficient processing and analysis.  Simulink adds
little
to that.


There seem to be many who disagree with you and use Matlab almost
exclusively for Simulink. We also get more or less regular requests in
the help mailing list if Octave has anything like Simulink.

I didn't say that.  I said Simulink adds little to efficiency and analysis.
It enshrouds Matlab with a layer of user interface that in some cases can
be useful for a specific application.  I've not found Simulink too useful as
far as my analytic pursuits.  (Note the reference I gave last time to
Stephenson's "In the beginning... was the command line.")



One other thing about the review is that it tends to vilify Mathworks
near
the end.


That's intentional. It's a review, it's subjective, it's my voice, and
I don't like the Mathworks. I don't approve of their business
practices, I don't think that it's ok to be evil as long as you're
making a profit, and I do not believe apologists who say, "you see, if
they didn't do all the evil things they do, they wouldn't be making
money."

All the evil things they do may be more perception than reality.



Rather, Octave puts a resource at the disposal of users
who can't afford otherwise, i.e., one doesn't have to buy their way into
a
scientific research community.


I think jwe has been pretty clear in several instances that he doesn't
see Octave as charity for those who can't pay for Matlab. He
emphasises the freedom of the software, that it can be distributed and
analysed without restriction except that it's forbidden to forbid. He
also expects to receive code for the code he's made, and he frequently
invites users to contribute to the code. Not charity. He wants
something back: code, contribution, involvement.

Hence the "bazaar-like" development that has been there since before
transfer to Mercurial.



On a more personal note from myself, those who can't pay for Matlab
already aren't doing so, but use it anyways. Ask Jaroslav Hájek, ask
me, ask any user in the mailing list who isn't from the US or Western
Europe (and possibly a few other places), is software around them
copied with blithe disregard for copyright? Ask the Swedes and The
Pirate Bay:


http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4510366/Mathworks.Matlab.R2008b.UNIX.DVD.ISO-TBE

I frequently see dwellers of the US or Western Europe acting as if
copyright infringement were impossible, or invisible, or immoral, but
it is the norm everywhere except in the US or Western Europe. It is
not always overt like with TPB, but it exists everywhere in the world,
to various degrees. It is also very widespread in the same countries
where these beliefs about copyright come from, but it is of course
much less overt, and much more socially stigmatised.

I'm not disagreeing that that is the case; quite aware of it.  However, this
point is a red herring as regards your original point.  Anyway, copyrights
are a structured model of business.  These rules date back a long way and
often were implemented to protect the intellectual property of small
business owners.


Not in Czechia, for instance. Here, they basically date back roughly
to the Velvet Revolution or a while after. And they started to be
enforced primarily to protect the IP of western companies expanding
here, or equivalently, to hold back the small Czech businesses from
catching up too easily with the entering big players. I don't want to
speculate whether this was the reason, but this was the effect. I
think this was sort of Jordi's point. As a consequence, there's little
natural respect for copyright in our country, it's mostly enforced
respect.

I said I'm aware of that point, but how does this matter on the business practices of a 
company that appears to be acting within laws?  I understand the forces and influence of 
big government, big corporations, imperialism, etc.  If less industrialized companies 
want to "catch up", as they should, then their governments should write their 
laws to encourage that (have some respect for the natural environment, of course) rather 
than thwart it.

Dan


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