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Re: Building Octave without xcode


From: Michael D Godfrey
Subject: Re: Building Octave without xcode
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 16:56:52 -0800
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On 12/25/2010 04:41 PM, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
2010/12/25 Michael D. Godfrey <address@hidden>:
> On 12/25/10 10:17 AM, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
>>
>> Is it impossible to build Octave without Xcode? Ben just pushed a
>> patch (11410:2df163be223e) for README.MacOS which suggests installing
>> Xcode in order to build Octave. This breaks with the GNU coding
>> standards:
>>
>>      http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/References.html
>>
> The strict interpretation of this does not allow building Octave under
> MAC OSX at all.
No, I don't think this is true. The above documentation makes explicit
exception for system libraries and the OS itself, since it's stuff
that's already installed and well-known.

> So, I would say that it is OK to use Apple gcc, X11, Xcode, or
> anything else that comes on the Apple install disk.
Xcode and gcc are way way different, and they don't even belong in the
same sentence, even if apparently they belong in the same disk... One
is a free compiler. Another is a proprietary IDE that wants to track
you and silence you.

Xcode has a very hostile license. Although there is a version on the
install disk, it's often outdated, and Apple encourages you to
register on their website. Last time I had to compile Mac OS X
binaries, it was impossible to do so with the Xcode provided on the
install disk, and the updated Xcode version provided in their website
involves agreeing to what, if I recall correctly, is essentially an
NDA, plus giving Apple tracking information about you.
This was true a while ago, but not with Snow Leopard as I remember.
The Xcode on the Snow leopard disk is (or was recently) up to date and
did not require agreeing to anything that I remember.  It seems to be what
everyone uses that I know of.  In any case, if a Mac distribution is put
together for Mac users, they do not need to know about or install Xcode.
The fact that Xcode isn't installed by default and is possibly not
even known except to developers further points out it might not fall
under the exemptions listed in the GNU coding standards: "people who
don’t already use the proprietary program will not see anything likely
to lead them to take an interest in it." Mentioning that you need to
install Xcode in order to compile Octave seems to me like telling
people to use this bit of non-free code that they wouldn't have
otherwise known about. Bear in mind that many modern Octave users are
baffled by the idea that you can compile software yourself.

2010/12/25 Ben Abbott <address@hidden>:
> On Dec 25, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
>
>> Is it impossible to build Octave without Xcode?
> Xcode is essentially an IDE which uses a modified version of gcc +
> other open-source tools.
Ben... calling gcc "open source"? :-(

> As a whole Xcode qualifies as "free beer" , but not all of it
> qualifies as "free speech".
Do you often have to register your data and sign an NDA when people
are buying you a beer? I find Xcode to be a bit worse than just being
proprietary.

> If there are any licenses, or tools, that look problematic, please
> bring them up so that we can look into the details further.
None of those tools are problematic (well, I've never seen the Sen:te
license before, but that's besides the point). It's Xcode itself.

Can't the necessary tools all be gotten from Fink or Macports? I think
that would be a lot nicer, to point out free software repositories to
people who might not have otherwise been exposed to them. I know you
already mention them, but encouraging people to go sign that NDA and
giving Apple tracking information seems quite objectionable to me.
I have never signed anything from Apple, and I use Xcode installed from
the Snow Leopard disk along with X11.
When I have tried to use Fink or Macports I have found that they
do not work well enough, and they break other things in my systems.
Just my experience.

- Jordi G. H.



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