Re: Release plans for the GUI

[tilas]

Hi,

I'd like to provide a user perspective which seems to be missing here.


Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2 wrote:
> 
> One of the biggest goals for the next stable release is to address
> what is perhaps our most frequent feature request for Octave: a GUI.
> 
Many thanks. Just keep in mind that since Octave/Matlab is also a language -
the more appropriate term (with all the consequences) is IDE, not GUI.



Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2 wrote:
> 
> It seems clear that exactly copying Matlab's GUI design 
> is not a good idea and we can do better.
Well, Matlab's IDE is actually very good. Doing better is cool, but at least
as good will be enough. At least for the first time.


Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2 wrote:
> 
> the only thing we can agree on is that the GUI should have a high 
> degree of customisability.
Keep it simple. You can always improve later. For the IDE to be useful IMHO
it must contain at least three panels:
1. Editor
2. Command window
3. Workspace

My personal preference is a five panels layout
Center Up: Editor
Center Down: Command window
Side: Workspace
another side: current dir and/or command history

Remember that screen estate is usually not an issue and the editor window
that contains 80-90 columns is absolutely enough.

Of all the blows and whistles, to be useful, only the integration of the
debugger is really important for the first release. The rest can be
gradually added later.


Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2 wrote:
> 
> == Windows == 
> 
> I've brought up this issue before and Jacob seems to have begun to 
> tackle it, but it's still present. Jacob's original implementation of 
> a terminal used ptys which cannot easily be ported into Windows. As a 
> result, Jacob has started a new implementation of the terminal which 
> seemingly is minimally functional. However, we need confirmation that 
> this can be built on Windows. Jacob attempted it, but it appeared to 
> be a very difficult task, and he seems to have given up on this 
> attempt. It would be helpful if someone who builds on Windows can help 
> us build the GUI there too. Like the rest of Octave, we have a big 
> need for building and testing on Windows. 

I am not a programmer, so can't help much on this one, except to point to
the GUIoctave (http://guioctave.com/) - it's a native Windows app written
with MFC (according to the author). It works with octave 3.2.4 - Have a
look. Maybe you can contact the author.
Concerning the terminal in windows - see the command line interface 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux here 
Perhaps the following can be of some help:
1.  A .NET-based command line environment called Windows PowerShell 
2. MS's own Services for Unix provides a bash terminal for Windows.
3. Posix subsystem is built in but not enabled by default.
Sorry if I'm completely off.


Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso-2 wrote:
> 
> I know almost all people working on 
> Octave development, myself included, see little value in a GUI, but I 
> think this is one major step towards having more people taking Octave 
> seriously and not just a Matlab clone of mediocre quality for when you 
> can't afford to pay for a Matlab license.  

To see a value - stop thinking about it like a developer, think like a user.
Users need an IDE ("most frequent feature request"). BTW, I do not think
anyone sees Octave as "just a Matlab clone of mediocre quality". Though it
is a Matlab clone and it is nice to have when you can't afford to pay for a
Matlab license.


Júlio Hoffimann wrote:
> 
> 1) 90% Octave users are Linux users. (please correct me if i'm wrong)
> 2) Canonical made easy for every student to have a GNU/Linux operating
> system installed and working in dual boot.
> 3) Octave works on Windows, a GUI is not strictly necessary.
> 
1) maybe. but that's because of the lack of an IDE.
2) not always possible. Especially in companies/corporations with
all-windows pcs. Even if one can get an open source SW to be blessed and
installed by the IT department - it must be 100% windows compatible. 
3)  you quite contradict yourself: "It's amazing to have an official GUI, we
hope this way Octave can reach more people" unless you don't count windows
users as people...

Now in general to all the unix(ego)centered  "scrap Windows and use Linux
instead " etc.
1. grow up and change your attitude. The fact that you can do something does
not mean everybody else can or must do it.
2. consider this simple fact of life: between 80%-90% of all desktops are
windows vs about 1%-5% linux (see the estimated desktop usage share 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux here ). 
It means - if you are really concerned with getting a bigger user base - you
*must target the windows platform*  as part of your strategy.


Best wishes,
Victor

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