Re: [Pan-users] Newbie question about unviewable posts

[Graham Lawrence]

Many thanks, David Shochat, for the tip about Edit Subject.  Just
shows how selective one's vision can be.  I never use Cc or Bcc so I
never look at that line, and I never saw Edit Subject until you
pointed it out.  But this reply is done using Edit Subject, so this
post should be all in order.

And Duncan, I checked each time as I did my other email.  It seems to
me that gmail stays with whatever formatting I have set it to.  But as
html is the default and one has to use it to do things like embed
pictures and clickable links, most email is conducted in html format
(unless you use a text-only emailer).  So I think people revert to
html and then forget to switch when posting to a text only list.  I'll
try to remember in future, but can't guarantee it.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:16 AM,  <address@hidden> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: [Semi-OT] git question (was Re: Handy new     feature...) (Duncan)
>   2. Re: Newbie question about unviewable posts (Graham Lawrence)
>   3. Re: Newbie question about unviewable posts (David Shochat)
>   4. Re: Newbie question about unviewable posts (Duncan)
>   5. GMail and HTML (Travis)
>   6. Re: GMail and HTML (Duncan)
>   7. Re: GMail and HTML (Ron Johnson)
>   8. Re: GMail and HTML (Travis)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:57:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Duncan <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] [Semi-OT] git question (was Re: Handy  new
>        feature...)
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Rhialto posted on Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:22:03 +0200 as excerpted:
>
>> On Thu 15 Sep 2011 at 08:02:41 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> $ rm -rf pan2 && git clone git://github.com/judgefudge/pan2
>>>
>>> What's the command(s) for us non-developers who "just" want to get all
>>> changes?  (Similar to "wget -m".)
>>
>> This should be enough:
>>
>> $ cd pan2 && git pull
>>
>> (where pan2 is the directory where the ".git" directory lives)
>
> Yes.
>
> Expanding a bit[1], git has two repository types, "bare" and default.
>
> In default mode, a clone (and further pulls) place a hidden .git subdir
> in the working dir.  This contains the sources pack-files and metadata
> necessary for history tracking, remote repo links, etc.  A pull both
> updates the sources from the remote, and does a checkout of the new
> current head sources into the working directory.
>
> In bare mode, the pack-files and metadata that would normally be found in
> the .git subdir are placed directly in the target dir itself, and there
> is no working dir.  This mode is for for public repositories, etc, that
> are intended to be pulled/pushed from/to, but not actually worked in,
> directly.  The required space is far less since there's only the packed
> copy of the data, the expanded sources (the checkout, in git terms) are
> omitted.  But this mode requires an extra command line option to setup,
> while the default mode above is just that, default, "the way it works
> unless you tell git to do it otherwise", thus making it simpler for users
> who just want to pull sources from upstream, and periodically update and
> build them.
>
> ---
> [1] Expanding a bit:  Heh, shouldn't surprise anyone on the list to see
> that in a "Duncan" post.  Perhaps the surprising bit would be if it's
> /just/ "a bit"! =:^)
>
> --
> Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
> and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:17:46 -0700
> From: Graham Lawrence <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] Newbie question about unviewable posts
> Message-ID:
>        <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> In response to Heinrich Mueller's comment on my previous post
>
>>
>> Did you notice that there's no References header in this reply?
>> Odd...
>
> google gives no access to the Subject line when Replying, so in order
> to honor your system's request that its Digest Subject line be be
> replaced by a reference to the original post I made my reply as a new
> post, using a Subject that referred to the original post; (likewise
> this post).  But from your comment it seems that it is combining the
> new post with the old, but sending it with a blank Heading?
>
> I do hope that it has delivered these last 2 posts of mine to you in
> text-only format, as requested.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:22:21 -0400
> From: David Shochat <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] Newbie question about unviewable posts
> Message-ID:
>        <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Graham Lawrence <address@hidden> wrote:
>>
>> google gives no access to the Subject line when Replying,
>
> Use the "Edit Subject" link just to the right of "Add Cc" and "Add Bcc".
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:49:21 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Duncan <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] Newbie question about unviewable posts
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Graham Lawrence posted on Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:17:46 -0700 as excerpted:
>
>> In response to Heinrich Mueller's comment on my previous post
>>
>>
>>> Did you notice that there's no References header in this reply?
>>> Odd...
>>
>> google gives no access to the Subject line when Replying, so in order to
>> honor your system's request that its Digest Subject line be be replaced
>> by a reference to the original post I made my reply as a new post, using
>> a Subject that referred to the original post; (likewise this post).
>
> Ahh... you're doing the list digest.  That explains things!
>
> In that case, you /did/ handle it correctly, rather more so than many
> users, in fact, and the references header (which normally wouldn't be
> displayed, but lists the previous messages in the thread by message-id,
> so a client can thread them properly) would have only referred to the
> digest anyway, so wouldn't have been of much use.
>
> Given HM's developer perspective, I think he was wondering if your
> message not being threaded with the others was a bug, so looked for the
> references header to see how it /should/ have been threaded.  Only there
> wasn't one since it was a new post.  (And as I said, if there had been
> one, it would have been for the digest message anyway, so wouldn't have
> been that much use, since digest readers would have only seen it in the
> next digest, and full list readers wouldn't have had the digest message
> to thread it under.)
>
> But I was wrong in attributing it to a google bug, as became clear once
> we had the missing piece, that being that you read and replied to the
> list digest, not the individual message.
>
>> But
>> from your comment it seems that it is combining the new post with the
>> old, but sending it with a blank Heading?
>
> No, the subject was perfect.  In fact, it was so perfect that it had HM
> investigating why the other header wasn't there, but we know why, now.
> =:^)
>
>> I do hope that it has delivered these last 2 posts of mine to you in
>> text-only format, as requested.
>
> Indeed it has.  Thank you.
>
> (Lest there be any doubt, I wasn't referring to you specifically when I
> replied to HM, mentioning the HTML that gmail users seem to so often
> use... much to their embarrassment, sometimes.  It was a reference to the
> pattern in general.  If you had posted in HTML and I had requested that
> you use plain text previously, by the time I composed that reply I had
> forgotten about it, and was simply referring to the overall pattern,
> since however gmail handles it seems not to "stick" reliably, and gmail
> users often find themselves posting HTML after they had it off... for a
> message or two.  One gmail user once stated that he had to turn it off
> for /every/ message, gmail had no way of telling it that from now on,
> when mail is sent to this address, only use plain text, as many local
> mail clients do.  As I said, I'm not a gmail user personally so I've no
> idea whether that's true or not, but if so, I'd call it a bug, because
> it's all too easy to forget when it has to be done /each/ /time/.
> Whatever.  Just be aware that however you set it, whether it be for each
> mail or always, for a particular destination address, the repeated
> pattern for gmail users seems to be that they may get the plain text
> setting right for a few mails, then for some reason, either because gmail
> forgets if it's set per address, or because the user forgets if it must
> be set for each message, they tend to revert to HTML once again.  It
> doesn't appear to be happening to yours at the moment, but don't be
> surprised if it does, since that's happened often enough to be a noticed
> pattern.)
>
> But I'm glad to be able to say I was wrong about gmail screwing up the
> references header. =:^)
>
> --
> Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
> and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:56:15 -0700
> From: "Travis" <address@hidden>
> To: "PAN" <address@hidden>
> Subject: [Pan-users] GMail and HTML
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> I use GMail and my messages are not in HTML.
> --
>
> Travis in Shoreline Washington
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:09:54 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Duncan <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] GMail and HTML
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Travis posted on Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:56:15 -0700 as excerpted:
>
>> I use GMail and my messages are not in HTML.
>
> True, they aren't. (Thanks. =:^)
>
> 1) Do you use the web interface, or a local client, set to sync with
> gmail?
>
> 2) Can you confirm one way or another what I had been told, that if using
> the web interface, plain text must be set per message -- there's no way
> to set it per address, so any mail to that address is always plain text?
>
> 3) If it's possible to set it per address (or globally, for that matter,
> so all messages are sent in plain text), a step-by-step that I could
> repost when others need it would be appreciated.  (If it's long and you
> don't believe it's list appropriate, you can mail me personally.  Note
> that if you're using gmane, while my real address appears obfuscated, the
> gmane address obfuscations are actually valid forwarding addresses, they
> just go thru gmane's spam filters before being forwarded, so it should
> work fine even then, unless you somehow trigger that spam filter or the
> one at my ISP, of course.)
>
> --
> Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
> and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:13:27 -0500
> From: Ron Johnson <address@hidden>
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] GMail and HTML
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On 09/15/2011 12:56 PM, Travis wrote:
>> I use GMail and my messages are not in HTML.
>
> And we are certainly glad.
>
> Anyway, next time you send an email like this, describe what you did to
> disable html.  Otherwise, it's just nyah-nyah bragging.
>
> --
> Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:16:46 -0700
> From: "Travis" <address@hidden>
> To: <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] GMail and HTML
> Message-ID: <address@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duncan
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:09 AM
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Pan-users] GMail and HTML
>
> Travis posted on Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:56:15 -0700 as excerpted:
>
>> I use GMail and my messages are not in HTML.
>
> True, they aren't. (Thanks. =:^)
>
> 1) Do you use the web interface, or a local client, set to sync with
> gmail?
>
> Local client.  Windows Live Mail that replies in a weird way.
>
> 2) Can you confirm one way or another what I had been told, that if
> using
> the web interface, plain text must be set per message -- there's no way
> to set it per address, so any mail to that address is always plain text?
>
> I don't know as I don't use the web interface.
>
> 3) If it's possible to set it per address (or globally, for that matter,
> so all messages are sent in plain text), a step-by-step that I could
> repost when others need it would be appreciated.  (If it's long and you
> don't believe it's list appropriate, you can mail me personally.  Note
> that if you're using gmane, while my real address appears obfuscated,
> the
> gmane address obfuscations are actually valid forwarding addresses, they
> just go thru gmane's spam filters before being forwarded, so it should
> work fine even then, unless you somehow trigger that spam filter or the
> one at my ISP, of course.)
>
> I don't know.  You could sign up for GMail and investigate.
>
>
> --
>
> Travis in Shoreline Washington
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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