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Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management
From: |
Jamie Lokier |
Subject: |
Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management |
Date: |
Tue, 6 Apr 2010 21:08:15 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) |
Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> The different formats are serving different needs really. People use the
> libvirt XML format because they want a representation that works across
> multiple hypervisors.
Then my use-case is being missed.
I tried using the libvirt XML format because I want to use the nice
virt-manager GUI to remote-control and view my qemu/kvm-based VMs.
Unfortunately I found it insufficiently expressive for my guests (I
needed particular steps to hand-hold old OS installs, for example),
not to mention the documentation was only online at the time and I wasn't.
Also the user-friendly image making tool lacked almost all the options
I needed to use. (Think of things like -win2k-hack, clock=vm, and
having to use specific version of kvm, or sometimes even disabling
kernel-kvm due to incompatibilities).
It's fine that I didn't use the libvirt config format - it wasn't
intended for my needs and that's ok.
The big lost opportunity was having to throw out the baby, towels,
nappies and all, with the bathwater: I couldn't use virt-manager's
useful facilities like the GUI, remote management,
instantiation/stopping/starting/migration when I needed to, and
resource monitoring (balloon etc.)
So I had to write some annoyingly hairy scripts and still have only a
half-baked solution.
Obvious solution here is for libvirt to be able to manage a VM but have
the *option* to get out of the way when it comes to configuring and/or
scripting that VM. Or get out of the way for part of it.
That would make libvirt and it's tools *much* more useful imho.
> are far too low level for their needs. They higher up the stack you go the
> less likely people are to want to use the low level config format directly.
But what about people who want to use the high level tools for the
*management* aspect, but their guests or use scenarios need low level
config and control?
Users aren't exclusively one or the other.
> This is a false analogy. csh & bash are two different implenetations at the
> same level in the stack. Compare libX11 against libgtk if you want a more
> sensible comparison. libgtk provides 99% of the features you need. In rare
> cases where it doesn't, you can get access to libX11 APIs directly, but that
> doesn't imply that everyone using GTK needs to know X11. Your argument
> against libvirt is akin to saying that since GTK can't ever support 100% of
> the X11 functionality, people shouldn't use GTK and apps should work against
> X11 directly.
When I had a go with libvirt/virt-manager, it wasn't missing just 1%
of the functionality. Quite a lot wasn't available (qemu options
needed for particular guests, scriptable control during installs), or
worked in an unsuitable way (the networking didn't fit my needs
either, but I think that's more unusual).
-- Jamie
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, (continued)
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/05
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Avi Kivity, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Avi Kivity, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/06
- Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Jamie Lokier, 2010/04/06
[Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Daniel P. Berrange, 2010/04/06
[Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Daniel P. Berrange, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Avi Kivity, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Daniel P. Berrange, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Daniel P. Berrange, 2010/04/06
- [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Alexander Graf, 2010/04/06
- Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Jamie Lokier, 2010/04/06
Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: libvirt vs. in-qemu management, Richard W.M. Jones, 2010/04/06