Re: [Bug-apl] Improving the visibility of programming languages derived from Iverson’s mathematical notation

[enztec]

And why is this thread here?   don't you already have everyone who will care 
about it already on the mailing list?

Just Asking!!!!


On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:17:24 +0000
"LaRocque, Guy (NRCan/RNCan)" <address@hidden> wrote:

> Hi Devon,
> 
> I agree that Bob’s ideas should be considered. The idea is not to create a 
> unique organisation
> or replace existing web sites, but to facilitate the linkages among the 
> different web sites and
> improve communications. Also, there are at least two other venues not 
> currently covered that
> may be promising:  organization of webinars, and development of  efficient 
> means of internet
> communications among organizations and users.
> 
> Guy
> 
> 
> From: Devon McCormick [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: March 10, 2016 01:16 PM
> To: Robert Bernecky
> Cc: LaRocque, Guy (NRCan/RNCan); address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; 
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden
> Subject: Re: Improving the visibility of programming languages derived from 
> Iverson’s mathematical notation
> 
> Bob has good ideas we should consider.  I've been updating the SIGAPL page 
> with notices of these functional-language conferences to which he refers: 
> please take a look and recommend any other venues that look promising.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Robert Bernecky 
> <address@hidden<mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:
> Hi, all,
> 
> I am not convinced that this group is a good idea, for several reasons.
> Here are some of those reasons, as I see them,
> being somebody who has worked
> in the area of Functional Array Languages for a while:
> 
> 0. Oh, please include SAC (Sven-Bodo Scholz,
>    at Heriot-Watt U in Edinburgh) in the language list.
>    SAC is beating everybody else
>    in performance, as the attached papers show.
>    Think of SAC as an extensible APL, even though it lacks
>    some important features (no higher-order functions).
> 
> 1. ACM SIGAPL existed outside of SIGPLAN, rather than as Just Another
>    Language within the SIGPLAN umbrella. The effect of this, although
>    perhaps intended to provide an incubator for a fledgling language,
>    was to prevent the good ideas of APL from being exposed to
>    the more larger programming language community.
> 
>    Action plan: Infect the extant SIGPLAN, IFL, ICFP, and other
>    functional and programming communities with the ideas of APL,
>    showing how it is better than what they are using now, and
>    why. See the attached as an example (with a lousy summary)
>    of this.
> 
> 2. There is already a small group associated with ACM PLDI,
>    promoting the ideas of functional array languages, and exchanging
>    ideas among those interested in them.
>    These are the PLDI Arrays Workshops. I am one a member of the
>    Program Committee of this year's Workshop. As far as I know,
>    no papers have been received for this workshop yet. It has
>    not been well-advertised, as far as I can tell:
> 
>      http://conf.researchr.org/track/pldi-2016/ARRAY-2016
> 
>    Laurie Hendren, David Padua, Stephen Herhut, and
>    Clemens Grelck are also on the program committee.
> 
>    Action plan: Work within the extant programming languages
>    community, rather than building yet another island of exiles.
> 
>    Action plan: Volunteer for the PLDI Arrays Workshops, and
>    PLEASE submit papers to same, giving your concrete research
>    results. Soon!
> 
> 3. The ideas presented in the  Arrays Workshops have been,
>    by and large, quite primitive, and ignorant (sorry!) of the
>    APL language. For example, one paper given at the Edinburgh
>    conference recently touted their invention of something
>    that we know as "scalar extension".
> 
>    Action plan: Get the fundamental ideas behind APL out to
>    the larger programming community by concrete actions.
>    These ideas include, but are not limited to:
> 
>       - functional notation (no side effects)
>       - rectangular arrays (NOT vectors of vectors!!) as fundamental
>         data objects, passed by value and and out of functions.
>       - higher-order functions: adverbs and conjunctions.
>       - typeless programming.
> 
>    Personally, I consider that being able to compile code to achieve
>    better performance than traditional languages can do (See
>    attached papers again) is crucial to acceptance, as is
>    achieving excellent parallel performance with NO source code changes.
>    We have achieved both of these goals with SAC, but much
>    remains to be done.
> 
> 4. There is much wasted effort in the functional array languages
>    community, that could be avoided if we worked together, instead
>    of reinventing the wheel. For example, in compiler projects alone,
>    we have SAC, APEX, and at least two different Dyalog APL compilers.
> 
>    Action plan: Work within the functional array languages community
>    to develop tool sets, such as compiler optimizations, that
>    be used in a variety of settings. Like gcc, one key here is
>    to define a common intermediate language that can be used to
>    express the source languages for the relevant functional
>    array languages.
> 
>    I have, in my back pocket, but in need of funding, an idea
>    for a book that describes, the current state of array language
>    optimizations, much as Bacon, et al's:
> 
>     Compiler Transformations for High-Performance Computing
> 
>    describes classical ones. The idea behind my "Optimizations
>    for Functional Array Languages" (OFFAL) is that each chapter
>    introduces a new optimization, of set of related optimizations,
>    offering the motivation for each of them, with benchmarks
>    and executable APL code that implements the optimization.
>    The result should be, ignoring things that I don't care
>    about, such as tokenization, syntax analysis, and run-time code
>    generation, a usable optimizer for a generic, high-performance
>    functional array language compiler.
> 
> 5. APLers are extremely good at ignoring work done outside the
>    APL community. This blinkered approach (some call it focused,
>    but we know better...) does not do us any good. As a simple
>    example, consider that NO APL dialect, with the sole exception
>    of SAC allows users to create their own derived data types.
>    Instead, new data types can only be created by the anointed
>    high priests of implementation. This is a waste of everybody's
>    time, and results in applications that are harder to write,
>    harder to maintain, harder to communicate, and harder to
>    compile effectively. [Gluing things together with "enclose"
>    does NOT constitute a new data type; it's merely a kludge.]
> 
> You have until April 1 to submit papers to Array'16.
> 
> Bob
> 
> On 16-03-09 07:35 PM, LaRocque, Guy (NRCan/RNCan) wrote:
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> >
> >
> > You are receiving this email because you are a member of the steering
> > committee of an association or belong to the community of developers or
> > consultants of a programming language derived from Iverson’s
> > mathematical notation, including APL, J, K, A+, Nial or Gauss. Recently,
> > I had a discussion with APL colleagues about the international
> > visibility of these different array programming languages. We are aware
> > of the fact that the majority of associations, developers and
> > consultants have good web sites with a lot of good information, but our
> > impression is that there is a lack of good communications among the
> > different associations in different parts of the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > The reason I am sending you this email is to suggest the idea of forming
> > an informal international group that will improve communications among
> > the organizations and users of languages derived from Iverson’s
> > mathematical notation. This international group could (1) establish
> > linkages between the web sites of the different associations, developers
> > or consultants, (2) organize webinars, (3) assemble lists of users
> > across the world, and (4) provide efficient means of internet
> > communications among organizations and users.
> >
> >
> >
> > The objective of this idea is not to create a “super” organization that
> > will consider existing groups as affiliates, but simply to promote good
> > communications and improve the visibility and use of the different
> > languages. If you like the idea and wish to initiate discussions,
> > please, let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Guy Larocque
> >
> >
> >
> > *************************************************
> >
> > Guy Larocque, Ph.D.
> >
> > Research scientist/Chercheur scientifique
> >
> > Natural Resources Canada/Ressources naturelles Canada
> >
> > Canadian Forest Service/Service canadien des forêts
> >
> > Laurentian Forestry Centre/Centre de foresterie des Laurentides
> >
> > 1055 du P.E.P.S.
> >
> > POB Box 10380, Stn. Ste-Foy
> >
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> >
> > Canada
> >
> > Tel: 418-648-5791
> >
> > Email: address@hidden<mailto:address@hidden> 
> > <mailto:address@hidden<mailto:address@hidden>>
> >
> > Editor of/ Éditeur deEcological Forest Management Handbook
> > <https://www.crcpress.com/Ecological-Forest-Management-Handbook/Larocque/9781482247855>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Robert Bernecky
> Snake Island Research Inc
> 18 Fifth Street
> Ward's Island
> Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9
> 
> address@hidden<mailto:address@hidden>
> tel: +1 416 203 0854<tel:%2B1%20416%20203%200854>
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Devon McCormick, CFA
> 
> Quantitative Consultant
>