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Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register
From: |
Riccardo Mottola |
Subject: |
Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register |
Date: |
Tue, 25 Jul 2023 00:36:01 +0200 |
User-agent: |
GNUMail (Version 1.4.0) |
Hi,
OpenStep not NeXTSTEP :) :)
On 2023-07-10 13:49:16 +0000 Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com> wrote:
We've gone around the NeXTstep-vs-MacOS thing before. I don't know if
you remember.
*In this case*, no, I have to disagree.
GSDE seems to me to very clearly and definitely be trying to recreate
NeXTstep, *not* Mac OS X.
I like that. I approve of that.
I can nitpick at this. GSDE is free to recerate the "NeXT look" and I
like that, it is in this regard a cousin of NeXTSPACE conceptually.
However, GNUstep itself is not about NeXTSTEP but about OpenStep!
OpenStep is the API we mostly recreated, not the NeXT one, although we
retained in the style the NeXT look. The NeXT API was different and
more primitive.
We also moved forward, implementing parts in a varying degree of
MacOS/macOS.
In context, trying to spell out that GNUstep is aiming at something
else would only be confusing.
Secondly, Apple itself no longer uses the term Cocoa and that itself
is obsolete terminology, so I don't think it's a useful comparison or
term. I think the reverse is true. It's unhelpful and unclear and
confusing.
Apple changed a lod of things. However, the closest evolution of
OpenStep is Cocoa itself: Foundation and AppKit.
We don't implement "the rest", or only parts of it... be it
ApplicationServices and all its tentacles, SwiftUI or whatever Apple
decides to come up with to corrupt things.
I think we should less and less refer to Apple and Mac - because we
more and more differ from it, even if we continue to add APIs from it,
as perversly it sounds.
I like to think we are a bit like those project trying to salve things
before "brokenness". Think of the total crap of current GTK without
client-side decorations and custom UI and menus. Think of GNOME and
KDE forks (Trinity= to preserve some more classic UI.
I don't have a better answer right now, sadly, but in the context of a
desktop environment, no, I think making a comparison to an obsolete
and discontinued Apple internal API spec would be considerably *less*
helpful.
I agree. Defining GNUstep is a little complicated, but you describe
the GSDE project.
However, we know people like to jump to conclusions island just too
quickly.
I do not have a proposal but I think the name Coca went away a full
decade ago and you need something more useful to replace it.
I don't think there currently is, I'd leave it there, trying to take a
little bit of distance from Apple.
Cheers,
Riccardo
--
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- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, (continued)
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Riccardo Mottola, 2023/07/24
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Liam Proven, 2023/07/22
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Gregory Casamento, 2023/07/22
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Liam Proven, 2023/07/28
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Gregory Casamento, 2023/07/28
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Svetlana Tkachenko, 2023/07/28
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Marco Cawthorne, 2023/07/28
- Message not available
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Gregory Casamento, 2023/07/28
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Gregory Casamento, 2023/07/30
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register, Gregory Casamento, 2023/07/31
- Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register,
Riccardo Mottola <=