Re: Debian12 repository.

[Andreas Fink]

The question now is what naming to choose

gnustep2...?
gnustep-arc..?
gnustep-clang-... ?



> On 24 Nov 2023, at 11:04, Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> let me try to explain a little the compatibility issue. I am not debating if 
> GCC is better or worse, but you want to provide an repository (would be 
> "overlay" in gentoo terms) to Debian or Ubuntu, which provides differently 
> configured packages. Runtime (in short, let's say ARC here) is the major 
> difference, but it could also be layout, root directory, etc.
> The issue is that debian and ubuntu already provide GS packages which are 
> configured differently from "yours" and you cannot control how Debian names 
> its packages, only "your".
> 
> I would configure these package e.g. with --with-layout=gnustep --prefix=/
> 
> This compatibility will remain even if in the future things will change. GCC 
> my acquire ARC and libobcj2, it will still be an issue for other things. 
> Debian might switch to clang, but you still have a different layout...
> 
> Also the amount of packages offered by you might differ. I suppose they 
> easily can be "more" because you could provide anything GNUstep has, but you 
> might choose not.
> 
> You cannot control how debian names their packages right now you can't just 
> call them legacy.
> 
> Andreas Fink wrote:
>> 
>>> base: 1.29
>>> gui: 0.30
>>> back: 0.30
>>> 
>>> Randomly checking some other apps shows they are op to release 
>>> (ProjectCenter, gorm, GNUMail)
>> Does that version support ARC?
> 
> It is irrelevant, those versions are current versions, that is what I wanted 
> to show. It depends on how they are compiled and they are compiled with gcc, 
> so without ARC.
> For all users which are not developers, they will not care, they install an 
> application and it works. Most applications we have do not require ARC.
> Those who notice are mostly developers now. Or in the future more apps will 
> be ARC-only, who nows.
> 
>> As far as I remember gcc simply doesn't support it. Sticking around with gcc 
>> is a dead end. It looks to me like gcc never will ever support objective-2.0 
>> fully.
>> I never even considered the debian packages because ARC does not work with 
>> them and thats kind of mandatory now.
> 
> While it is up for debate if GCC is a dead-end or not, it was not my point. 
> You need to consider debian packages, since they exist and are in the 
> official repositories.
> While the libobjc2 runtime is "runtime" compatible with non-ARC code, it is 
> (no longer is?) binary compatible with it. So you have to cover e.g. these 
> two scenarios:
> 
> Debian repo first:
> 1) debian user installs some GNUstep user packages. E.g GWorkspace, Terminal 
> and PRICE. They pull in of course gnustep core libraries
> 2) user wants to develop, installs ProjectCenter&GORM, dev packages, ecc
> 3) user needs ARC, adds your repository
> 4) user needs to replace existing packages with "your" packages. All of them! 
> Even if they have the same "version" number they need to be mutually exclusive
> 5) if a package is not provided by your package it needs to be removed. E.g. 
> you provide core, ProjectCenter and GWorkspace, but not Terminal and PRICE. 
> They need to me deleted because of unavailable dependency
> 
> GS repo first (happy flow)
> 1) debian user does not have any GS app or library installed
> 2) User adds your GS repos, install what it needs, e.g. Core, ProjectCenter 
> and GWorkspace
> 3) user attempts to add Terminal and PRICE which you do not provide, he needs 
> to fail to install the debian provided versions
> 
>> What incompatibilities do we end up having if we use the new runtime 2.0 
>> only?
>> non ARC written code can still be executed. What other clashes will we face?
> 
> To my knowledge and experience, in most code I am involved in there is no 
> end-user difference. I have two workstations, they run the "same" software 
> (all gnustep core tool & apps, all GAP apps + PRICE and some custom apps none 
> of which needs objc2) one on linux with GCC and one with FreeBSD and 
> clang/libobjc2 and they all compile and run the same. Provided you are on a 
> fully supported arch/OS combination, no issues.
> 
> Sure there are differences when you debug, compile and things. There may be 
> bugs, e.g. do that on NetBSD and with libobjc2 your exceptions won't work.
> 
> I wanted to stress the "package tree" incompatibility issue, where mixing is 
> impossible for many reasons, not just compiler and runtime.
> 
> Riccardo