Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib?

[Emanuel Berg]

João Távora wrote:

>>> Anyway, the point is that to hack on long-lived files such
>>> as lisp/minibuffer.el, one can't really "ignore" the new
>>> dictionary of seq.el anymore.
>>
>> That's exactly the problem.
>
> Then why this laser-focus on cl-lib.el? Why not criticize
> the use of seq.el and map.el and pcase.el all of which "add
> many functions, which have many details"? Why are these
> libraries seemingly exempt from this discussion?

Indeed, this has been mentioned several times now and the
answer we get is "There is no special treatment of cl-lib.el".
Hard to believe.

> The above question is mostly rhetorical, I am _not_
> criticizing these libraries or advocating restricting seq.el
> and map.el and pcase.el.
>
> Reading certain parts of Emacs core has become impossible
> without getting well acquainted with Stefan's Monnier
> pcase.el which I had to do some 7-8 years ago. It was an
> entirely alien creature when I first saw it. It is directly
> inspired by pattern matching of the ML language.
>
> When reading a pcase, I occasionally think to myself that
> it's overkill complexity, that "in the old days" it was all
> much simpler. In many other cases I've learned to
> appreciate, and now it's part of my Lisp toolbox too.
>
> I think it's important to allow the programmers and
> maintainers working on specific sections of the code
> a certain freedom to recommend or select certain
> abstractions. But Emacs's Lisp code base is now very
> extensive and any kind of core-wide ban or rewrites of
> certain patterns is counter-productive and highly
> contentious. Let's be very careful when going down
> that path.

Very much so.

> Has Emacs Lisp become ML through the use of pcase.el?
> Of course not. It's become easier to write many things in
> Emacs Lisp, if anything.

It has become the SME(cl), the Standard Meta Emacs
Common Lisp. Deal with it.

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