Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib?

[João Távora]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 2:43 AM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> cl-list* is just one example of a theme that constantly repeats itself
> throughout our code.  Removing this one instance is futile,

You're just contradicting yourself.  First, you argue that it's easy
to replace and has these immediate benefits and then when someone agrees
with you, you say you don't want to.

Also btw, it might not be easy to replace at all cl-list* can be used
with higher order #'apply in contexts where nconc can't.  Perhaps
you despise the programmer who wrote

  (apply #'cl-list* input-data)

But perhaps they did it to avoid writing a multi-line raw loop choo choo
train again.

So it's not true what you said originally that everytime you find a
cl-list* it can be cleanly replaced by nconc.  Not if you understand
or even appreciate function composition.

> since there's plenty more where it came from.   The only remedy is
> for everyone to develop a general aversion to cl-lib.

Be consistent: find the places using simple forms of cl-list* that
presumably (as you said) are the only motivations for the whole
cl-lib.el 27kb loading.  I didn't check but this was your opening
argument after all.  So do that and you'll have effectively and
consensually helped Emacs's code base.  You'll be closer to your
dream goal, using Emacs without loading cl-lib.el.   Be consistent
with your words, else you're just hand-waving and advocating
for irrationality.  "develop a general aversion"??? I like to think
of programmers as scientists, not acolytes to some sect.

João