Re: [External] : Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib?

[João Távora]

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 7:48 PM Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>
> > > Also, I know you don't like cl-loop but in terms of efficiency
> > > it's sometimes a very good choice.
> >
> > The problem of `cl-loop' is more one of expressiveness and readability.
> > Even some Common Lisp people don't like it and have developed
> > alternatives - like "iterate"
> > (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://iterate.common-
> > lisp.dev/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!Ol1EyLyV-Fu5xj6jaaLCQzvsrtW0qRWo9zcY6-
> > y5VTHNrTf2yPZwm6ZqfQhREJo0Nb4qd0I2EZyuSpRF37bfzRpUEkRL$ ).
> >
> > Dunno if something like that would be more acceptable to Po Lu, but it
> > could be an improvement compared to `cl-loop'.
>
> +1.
>
> Hadn't seen your msg when I sent a similar one,
> for the same reason.  IF there's some attempt
> to add something akin to `cl-loop' to Elisp at
> some point, maybe consider `iterate' as a more
> lispy alternative.  Not so much a "foreign
> language".

As far as I know (I used or had to read it once or twice)
it's just cl-loop with more  parenthesis...  Or is there
some fundamental difference in ease of use?

I expect it to have a substantial manual too, as any
powerful language.

Anyway, I hope whatever is it, that it is better optimized
than our cl-loop which seems to create blocks needlessly
and almost always puts an nreverse at the end when
collecting stuff in order.  Other 'loop' implementations
(outside Elisp)  don't do that and are usually as fast or
faster than the sequence functions beside them.  But ours
isn't (not by much tho).

João